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by jimlongley
Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:20 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: Running Serial Numbers of weapons of CHL holders.
Replies: 76
Views: 15872

Re: Running Serial Numbers of weapons of CHL holders.

mrvmax wrote:
jimlongley wrote:
powerboatr wrote:just asking
but aren't the serial numbers already in the atf database? When i purchase a new firearm the serial number is listed on the atf form.

i would say private sales..the number may never get transferred to the new owner.
interesting.
That form stays in the possession of the owner of the gun store until such time as that store goes out of business, at which time the form passes on to BATFE where they are not supposed, by law, to record any of the information on the forms.
Not always true, when you purchase two handguns in a five day period it has to be logged on the ATF multiple handgun purchase form. This form is faxed to the ATF and they have all your info and the firearm info. They do check the serial numbers on these forms, I have had them call me when I wrote the wrong serial number. So, they can get the info on your handgun purchases.
True, for that special case, but then it makes me wonder where they are finding the serial numbers to compare them to.
by jimlongley
Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:04 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: Running Serial Numbers of weapons of CHL holders.
Replies: 76
Views: 15872

Re: Running Serial Numbers of weapons of CHL holders.

howdy wrote:GC 9411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officets official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall
return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license
holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder
is not a threat
to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if
the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or
committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license
holder.

I go back and read the laws every now and then and I always find something that perks my interest. Read the red script. If taken literally, it appears the Officer WOULD NOT be required to even return your handgun IF s(he) "thought" you might be a threat. Talk amoungst yourselves.
And the other rub is " . . . reasonably believes . . ." which all depends on who is determining what is reasonable, and in some cases we know that there are officers who disarm because "It's policy!" which, imho fails the reasonable man test.
by jimlongley
Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:30 am
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: Running Serial Numbers of weapons of CHL holders.
Replies: 76
Views: 15872

Re: Running Serial Numbers of weapons of CHL holders.

C-dub wrote:Something is still bothering me about this and I'm wondering if we're not making too much out of this. I have two questions.

1. Because of the way 4473 forms are handled there is no electronic database linking a gun I purchase new from an FFL, right?

2. When a LEO "runs"a serial number to see if it is stolen, it is merely being checked against a database of known stolen guns' serial numbers, right?

If these two things are true and as long as the LEO is not entering my information and gun's serial number into any other departmental database or notebook or recording it in anything then I am okay with that and much more concerned with their "perceived" fear and the "need" to disarm me at all given the record of CHLs in this state.
My issue is: Knowing how easy it is to build databases, it would take little or no effort to establish an "agency level" record of serial numbers run, cross referenced to every bit of information available when the traffic stop or other contact was made, and an agency level database would require very little effort to roll into something bigger. And I'll bet their excuse for having/building this illegal database (at least in my estimation) would be that this does not represent "gun registration" per se, it is merely a record of contacts with those guns/owners.

I would have to object to my serial numbers being run.

And I have a couple that have no 4473/FFL association because they predate the era.
by jimlongley
Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:24 am
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: Running Serial Numbers of weapons of CHL holders.
Replies: 76
Views: 15872

Re: Running Serial Numbers of weapons of CHL holders.

powerboatr wrote:just asking
but aren't the serial numbers already in the atf database? When i purchase a new firearm the serial number is listed on the atf form.

i would say private sales..the number may never get transferred to the new owner.
interesting.
That form stays in the possession of the owner of the gun store until such time as that store goes out of business, at which time the form passes on to BATFE where they are not supposed, by law, to record any of the information on the forms.
by jimlongley
Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:46 am
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: Running Serial Numbers of weapons of CHL holders.
Replies: 76
Views: 15872

Re: Running Serial Numbers of weapons of CHL holders.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that any serial number run by any agency went into a central database. It wouldn't be called gun registration, or even record keeping, just noting that the gun had been cleared of any involvement in crimes in the past, just in case it pops up some time in the future. Just a simple little database that just happens to contain the owner's name, address, and other identifying information.

But I am NOT paranoid, it just wouldn't surprise me.

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