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healthinsp wrote:As a former EMT, having pulled seriously injured bodies out of T-boned cars from red light runners, if there is something that reduces broad-sides I can support that.

The important question is not if it reduces t-bone collisions, but improves safety overall. Rear end collisions can be just as deadly as t-bone collisions. Even if they were generally less severe (and I think, without studying it, that they probably are), if it causes more injuries or more damage, it becomes a very important question on how you improve safety.

I appreciate debating the safety increase or decrease of the cameras because it avoids the debates on rights and if we should be using these kinds of tools.

We could also ask if there were better ways to solve this problem. My personal favorite is to delay the green for a few seconds after the other side goes red. See if a couple seconds of red all around improves things.

Another question we need to look at in the studies, and I do not know how to do this, is to see if the cameras reduce the accidents caused by people who run the light after it has been red for awhile versus getting there as it turns yellow and not quite making the yellow light.

JP171 wrote:ok so lets see, the ihhs the group that is paid and bought by the automobile industry is very good,

Just a minor technical correction but the IIHS has nothing to do with the automotive industry. It is bought and paid for by the insurance industry, as its name implies (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety). As a general rule, they are in favor of anything which they believe can reduce the amount of money insurance companies pay out in claims.

JP171 wrote:it boils down to this very simply, red-light cameras have no value as a deterrent to running red lights

Actually, every study I have seen says just the opposite. One of the big problems with red light cameras is that, while they do reduce intersection accidents, they increase the number of rear end accidents because people jam on their brakes to avoid the ticket. The jamming on of the brakes is a sign of deterrence.

Pawpaw wrote:Numerous studies have shown that simply increasing the yellow light duration by 2 or 3 seconds and adding another 2 or 3 second delay before the other direction turns green will all but eliminate red light running.

Minor technical correction. It does not eliminate the red light running. That is why they start a delay before the green, leaving the lights red in all directions. What it does is stop accidents caused by red light running though. One of the problems that causes accidents is the car that runs the yellow light as it turns red and the other car jumps the red light as it turns green. Delaying the green stops the early jumpers.

My experience says this is the very best solution. And I agree with you on why it is not implemented in some cities. Since not every place has cameras, that does not explain why it is not done everywhere. In my conspiracy theory moments, I tend to attribute it to more malicious motives, but I don't really think so. I just can't come up with any valid reason no to do this.