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Soap wrote:I just talked to someone who has been going for years. He carries every time he goes. He said they just check bags and things. He also said there is no offcial signs reguarding permit carry. All he has seen is "weapons are prohibited". The website doesn't reference law either. It sounds more like a request.

FWIW, I got wanded last year on my way in, but perhaps I'm a bit more a shifty-looking character. Also FWIW, I also had plenty of time to observe security doing the wanding, and I could have returned to my car before going through security if needed. As stated, I've also never seen any firearms-specific signage.

Skiprr, I respect those arguments, and you stated them very well. I'm simply not convinced they will carry the legal weight needed to allow an LTC to carry onto the premises. I would be in agreement with you if the City were the actor, but that's not the case here.

I simply do not see anything in the law that restricts C3 from enforcing this policy. I don't think an LTC holder could be prosecuted under § 30.06 for carrying past a 30.06 sign, but I also don't think § 30.06 is central to the issue.

Perhaps let me put it this way: As I read the law, I do not believe that § 30.06 is the sole means to lawfully exclude an LTC from an area that is under the control of a private party. This is true even if that area is a public park, where the governmental entity has contracted away control of access to the area to a private entity.

I could be absolutely wrong, and hopefully I am. This might be something where we simply disagree on the application of the law, which is perfectly reasonable given the status of the current statutes.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable with you here--just offering my unsolicited opinion.

Abraham wrote:AustinNative04,

Since you're on this forum, would I be correct in assuming you're pro-gun?

Or...?

Either way, thanks for your valuable input.

Yes sir, I like all of the Bill of Rights.

ScottDLS wrote: Yep that's what I expected. You can't be prosecuted if you sneak in with your CCW, but if they physically prevent you from entering there's nothing you can do. It may be possible to ask the AG to hold that Austin PD be barred from enforcing the ban and perhaps even to force the city cease allowing lessee's to enforce this provision....I'm not holding my breath, although a similar suit forced the State Fair in Dallas to allow CCW.

Totally agree with that. But like you, I wouldn't hold my breath for the AG. I just don't think the current law is strong enough to compel either C3 or the City to do anything differently.

TexasTornado wrote:

Except for that pesky line that states you can't exclude an LTC Holder on criminal trespass simply for having a weapon.

I think I’m following your point—but correct me if I’m missing it. I recognize that this is park land, and generally speaking, a government entity couldn't exclude an LTC from a park solely for having a lawful firearm.

But, in this situation, Zilker Park is temporarily under the control of a private entity for purposes of the festival. Remember, access is controlled with fences and gates. I believe the LTC would be excluded for violating the terms and conditions of the license--terms set by the private entity, not the City.

Skiprr wrote:

AustinNative04 wrote:

Abraham wrote:AustinNative04,

Are you in agreement with the anti-gun restrictions enforced at the Austin City Limits Festival?

I'm not agreeing or advocating that there should be a no-guns policy. But, I would agree that having such a policy does not violate current law.

It doesn't? PC §30.06/07(e) doesn't apply?

No, I don't think so. I think you can discuss the possibility of amending the statute in the future, but I do not see the City of Austin as acting unlawfully in this situation. Here is my reasoning. BTW, in case you're wondering why I jumped in on this thread, IAAL who has attended a lot of ACL Fests.

First, both 30.06(e) and SB 273 deals with the 30.06 signage specifically, which is likely not in play at ACL. Again, the license grantor can set the terms and conditions of the license, and this is governed by contract law. I've never seen a 30.06 sign at ACL.

Second, even if C3 were to post a 30.06 sign, it would be the private entity doing the posting, rather than the governmental actor. As you are likely aware, this Attorney General concluded in KP-108 that a private entity may legally post a 30.06 sign (even if the crime of trespass under 30.06 is likely unenforceable).

If I were writing policy for C3 and the event organizers told me they want to exclude firearms, I would handle it this way: Make no firearms a contractual condition of the license to attend the festival. If security personnel stop a ticket holder who is violating the terms of the license, exclude the person from the event. If that person refuses to leave, charge that person with trespass under the general criminal trespass law or for disturbing the peace. No need to even mess with the language of 30.06, which likely doesn't even apply anyway, because as someone else mentioned, 30.06 refers to premises.

Again, I'm not advocating that there should be a no-guns policy, only indicating that I think there can be a no-guns policy.

Abraham wrote:AustinNative04,

Are you in agreement with the anti-gun restrictions enforced at the Austin City Limits Festival?

I'm not agreeing with or advocating that there should be a no-guns policy. But, I would agree that having such a policy does not violate current law.

ScottDLS wrote:
Public outdoor areas like walkways and open areas in parks (non-buildings) are not "premises" under 46.035, so you can not make them a 51% "premises" to ban carry. They can't ban carry with 30.06/7 and wands since it's a public park, but as you point out, that doesn't mean they won't try.

While held in Zilker Park, a municipal park, ACL Festival is not open to the general public without the purchase of a ticket. Access to the festival is controlled via fencing and secured points of entry.

The definition of a premises under the Penal Code notwithstanding, when an attendee purchases a ticket (i.e. a license to attend the event), that ticket holder agrees to the terms and conditions set forth by the event organizers, including policies prohibiting firearms. ACL Festival is organized and administered by C3 Presents. C3's policies regarding weapons is articulated in the FAQ section of the ACL Festival website: http://www.aclfestival.com/information/#faqs-ticket.

There will be security staff and APD officers on duty patting down and/or wanding attendees; there always is. It would be safe to assume that you will be refused entry if security personnel become aware you are carrying a firearm.