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koolaid wrote:

Keith B wrote: Looking at these numbers your statement earlier is disproven. While there was a drop in 2009 from 2008, the rate has steadily climbed since then, however the rate has declined in states with the Death Penalty

Huh? My earlier statement that the murder rate in non-death penalty states is lower, and has been for years, matches the numbers. I'm honestly confused as to what you feel is being disproven?

I see what you were saying that the rate was lower in those states vs. a death penalty state. I don't think the death penalty is that much of a deterrent, but I, like Charles, know those that are executed are not repeat offenders any more.

koolaid wrote: I'm not sure where you are getting this from, because looking at the stats on that page:

For 2011, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.7, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1

For 2010, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.6, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 2.9

For 2009, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.9, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 2.8

For 2008, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 5.2, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.3

You can click around that site and find other stats comparing neighboring states with different policies, and detailed breakdowns of the rates

Looking at these numbers your statement earlier is disproven. While there was a drop in 2009 from 2008, the rate has steadily climbed since then, however the rate has declined in states with the Death Penalty

koolaid wrote:
Here is where we differ, I guess. I'm not opposed to executing murderers, rapists, and various other criminals. But the fact of it is that innocent people are convicted of crimes they didn't commit all the time. Our justice system isn't perfect, and it never can be. Having the state kill someone doesn't leave any room for mistakes, and having the state murder an innocent person is a (in my opinion) a far more heinous crime than letting a murderer rot in prison.

The thing to remember is there is an appeal process and I don't know of any people who were actually put to death that did not have multiple appeals and were still found guilty. Not saying there may have been an innocent person (95% of the inmates will tell you they are not guilty), but think the process is pretty solid and the best we can do. I will say with new technology available that it should be used by law enforcement to prove as best possible that they either have or do not have the right person. The cost to run these tests would potentially be far less than the cost of trying an innocent person multiple times.