TexasCHLforum.com

I've been a political animal for over 30 years. In the last dozen or so years, I've noticed a growing number of Libertarians (or libertarians, if you prefer) trying to get the GOP to accept libertarian positions on certain issues. I suspect this is happening because all but the most ardent libertarians realize that party/movement/philosophy is so schizophrenic that it doesn't appeal to conservatives or liberals. There's plenty in the Libertarian Party Platform for everyone to hate. So it appears libertarians try to stress their fiscally conservative belief to Republicans hoping that no one will ever see their ultra-liberal stance on social issues. It hasn't worked and it never will. You won't get core Republicans to abandon family values. (Family values isn't limited to abortion and gay marriage, a fact that seems to escape some folks.)

Making the GOP overall more liberal on social issues would be the end of the Party. There's already a party for that philosophy and it's the Democratic Party. Libertarians are fiscally conservative and ultra-liberal on many social issues, and absolute anarchists on others. Their platform and message doesn't sell as evidenced by the fact that they can't win. Adopting Libertarian viewpoints would also bring about the death of the GOP.

Like it or not, I do and some don't, the core of the Republican Party, and Hispanics in the Democratic Party, are God-fearing socially conservative Christians. You don't grow the GOP by alienating the core while trying to turn it into a Libertarian-Light Party. The only way to increase the numbers and political strength and impact of the GOP is to attract our only natural ally, the Hispanic community.

Most Americans and the vast majority of Republicans have precious little in common with libertarians, whether with a big or little "L." If that were not true, the Libertarian Party would have made gains in the political arena and it hasn't. Becoming more liberal or libertarian would be counterproductive, would alienate the core of the GOP and the Hispanic community we so desperately need, and kill the GOP.

To my fellow long-time conservatives, if you think we are still the silent majority and are growing in number, you're kidding yourself. The numbers in the last election prove it. There was no huge block of conservative voters who stayed home on election day. We are outnumbered by true Democrats and those who vote for Democratic candidates because they offer something they want. We can't reach all of them because there's just too many things to divide us, but we can make great inroads into the Hispanic community.

Abortion and gay marriage was brought up and I will agree that those issues are best left to the states. The national government has no business getting involved, whether by Congress or the U.S. Supreme Court. We can fight those battles at home and in Texas, we'll win. In California, it will be a different story, but those differences do not make them federal issues.

I'll say it until the day I die. Hispanics are natural Republicans because they share the same beliefs held by the core of the Republican Party. The gap between us is the immigration issue and we either accept that fact and fix it, or the GOP will gradually die over the coming years and it will take the values we share with it.

Chas.

anygunanywhere wrote:Let's just assume for a moment that immigration reform will drive conservative hispanics our way.

Let's also assume that sometime during the next 4 years this reform happens.

The dems get the credit.

In order for the GOP to get the credit we need to be in the white house.

We can't get into the white house without the support of the conservative hispanics.

Catch 22.

Anygunanywhere

I agree in part, especially the credit part. However, I would never support the Democrat version of immigration reform as it will always be an open-door approach with virtually guaranteed U.S. Citizenship at the end of some period of time. What I propose is Republicans start talking about specific reforms (perhaps like those I outlined) right now! Then add it to state and national platforms. The Republican-controlled House needs to pass an immigration reform bill ASAP, before the Democrats can do it in the Senate. If the Senate refuses to pass it, then the Republicans can and should point that out on a frequent basis, all the way up to the mid-term elections. If the Senate does pass the House version, then Republicans will get the credit.

Some Hispanics in the U.S. will not be satisfied with anything but an open-door policy, but most will accept a compromise. Once we get over that hurdle, then we can talk about what unites us instead of what divides us.

Chas.

Folks, don't misunderstand; I'm as upset as everyone else with the election results. Not one of my beliefs have changes and my resolve to continue fighting for our Second Amendment right is not diminished. When it was clear Obama had been reelected, my wife and I stared at each other and she finally said "I can't believe America has come to this. How can so many be so deceived?"

As I see it, we can either sit around bemoaning the loss of the America we've all known up until know, or we take a hard look at reality and deal with it.

Chas.

Some members have gotten close to calling for an overthrow of the U.S. government. Be forewarned, that violates Forum rules and it will not be tolerated, whether states overtly, covertly, or implied.

Chas.

anygunanywhere wrote:The reason hispanics vote democrat is not because they like the dem approach to immigration.

. . .

Immigration reform will not do anything to move them to our side.

Anygunanywhere

This is flat wrong and every political policy expert agrees. This is your opinion and it's wrong.

Chas.

VMI77 wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote: The only way to revive conservationism is to attract Hispanics and appeal to all educated young people with a message that resonates with them and doesn't simply sound like bitter old white guys.

I know many of our Members aren't going to like this post. Heck, I don't like it myself, but these are the facts and the ostrich approach never works.

Chas.

That's not going to happen without regaining control of the school system and eliminating liberal media dominance. The school system and media have produced several generations of collectivists and it looks like they're finally reaching critical mass.

I agree about the school system, so get out and do something! Run for the school board or help find, then support and campaign for good candidates.

The media is not a problem no matter how we like to make that claim. Yes, the mainstream media is ultra-liberal and pro-Democrat, but their sphere of influence is small and it's shrinking. No one cares what the talking heads at NBS, CBS and ABC say. That's why Fox News is killing them. Far more people stay informed by reading Internet media outlets. The Hurst Corporation is in big trouble as its newspapers throughout the nation are seeing subscription rates plummet and advertising revenue are following.

Chas.

TexasCajun wrote:So what is the answer? What do we DO about the current situation? Let's see some solution on here. I'm not of a mind to simply curl up in a corner & hope things get better (or worse, hope things don't go further downhill). I'm willing to take action, just point me in the right direction. I didn't start this thread so that we could sit around & mope about how unfair things are. My original intent was to try to take a step back out of the frustration & feeling of loss in order to begin moving forward.

You are absolutely right; we must do something or accept the United States as a 3rd world country with ever-dwindling constitutional rights!

Immigration reform is absolutely the key to getting Hispanics to join the Republican Party and/or vote for Republican candidates. Such reform doesn't have to mean "fee stuff" anymore than being an American citizen means I get "free stuff." Free healthcare is a separate issue and now it's tied directly to Obamacare that's not going away for at least four years, if ever.

As noted in my first post, I'm a life-long conservative and until very recently, I've said what most other conservatives say, "if you are caught illegally in this country, you should be deported on your first offense and jailed on subsequent offenses. Ignoring illegal immigration is unfair to American citizens and to aliens to follow the law and come to this country legally." I still feel this way, but the reality is clear, we either compromise on this issue or lose everything. I know some conservatives feel "compromise" is a dirty word, but that's absurd. We compromise every day with our family, friends, co-workers and many other groups. We'd better do so in the political arena, or we'll be like two old Brits in a pub talking about the glory days when the sun never set on the British Empire.

As for specifics, if I were crowned king tomorrow, here's what I'd do about immigration:

• 1. Establish a guest worker program for Mexican nationals (not other countries) that is not the same as a work visa;
  2. People must have a verifiable, written job offer to apply for a guest worker permit;
  3. If you are illegally in the country and have a job in the U.S., you can submit the required paperwork without leaving the country;
  4. If you are illegally in the U.S., do not have a job, then you must leave and follow procedures;
  5. U.S. Dept. of Labor or the Border Patrol maintain a database of jobs available (voluntarily submitted by employers) for which Mexican nationals can apply;
  • a. If the jobs are temporary or short term, the guest worker permit will have an expiration date;
    b. If an employee quits or is fired, the employer must notify the U.S. Border Patrol and the guest worker permit would be revoked;
  6. Children of illegal aliens and guest worker permit holders born on U.S. soil would not be American citizens, but they would be eligible for resident alien "Green Card" status upon reaching the age of majority, if they 1) do not have a criminal history; and 2) graduated from high school (not GED).
  7. After a 12 month amnesty period, anyone found illegally in the U.S. will be deported and cannot apply for a guest worker permit for five years;
  8. Provisions for the commission of crimes by guest workers would have to be established, including impact on family members in the U.S.

Obviously, this is just an off-the-cuff plan and much more detail would have to be developed. Such a program would give Hispanics in the U.S. a way for their relatives to legally come to this country and that is key.

Chas.

SewTexas wrote:But they are....they are a matter FOR the STATES....that's what Paul Ryan kept saying and no one wanted to listen...

I agree. Religion and gay marriage are not issues that divide Republicans and Hispanics; they are uniting factors. Leave it alone at the national level and focus on national issues while bringing Hispanics into the Republican Party.

Chas.

I'm a life-long conservative, death penalty-supporting, white Republican and every day that passes I become more of a minority.

Here are the hard cold facts. Obama won, the Democrats pickup seats in the Senate and in the House, and Romney got about all of the white vote possible. If the Republicans couldn't unseat an absolute failure like Obama, and couldn't gain seats in the Senate, then we had better take a hard, cold look at what we are doing wrong.

The Republican Party better start appealing to Hispanics with whom we have a lot in common, or we will not see a Republican in the White House again. We will also see the Democrats take the House and increase their margin in the Senate. Bush won by the slimmest of margins (lost one popular vote) and he was more popular with Hispanics than any Republican candidate in years. If Republicans concede the rapidly growing Hispanic population to the Democrats, then all of us conservatives will simply have to sit back, complain, and reminisce about the "good old days."

If the Republicans had come up with some form of immigration reform, then we would have taken a much larger percentage of the Hispanic vote. White Republicans and Hispanics share a strong family values ethic and we are natural allies. Letting the immigration issue drive them to the Democratic Party is political suicide.

I know some will argue that conservatives didn't go to the polls for Romney, but that's not the case and that's not why we lost. The sad truth is this: conservatives are in the minority and this is happening at an accelerating rate. The only way to revive conservationism is to attract Hispanics and appeal to all educated young people with a message that resonates with them and doesn't simply sound like bitter old white guys.

I know many of our Members aren't going to like this post. Heck, I don't like it myself, but these are the facts and the ostrich approach never works.

Chas.