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texanjoker wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

texanjoker wrote:Panhandlers in Austin get that aggressive. They are scaring people into throwing them some money which is wrong IMO.

Austin is about the only place I run into them these days....I've encountered a few that are clearly mentally ill (one in particular who "patrolled" the median next to the Taco Cabana off Riverside), but none that have struck me as dangerous. Anyone who tried to scare me would just get a police report in lieu of money.

I've never been scared either, but the calls go out that people are scared all the time. Personally they annoy me big time. When I am in my jeep in the summer the doors and top is off. Some of these clowns just won't go away. I guess my quality of life as a tax payer doesn't mean anything anymore. BTW aggressive panhandling in the roadway is illegal.

Regressing, but back in CA I was at a traffic light and a bum was so bad I finally flashed my badge and wanted to talk to him in a official capacity (we didn't allow that). I was working a crime suppression detail in a unmarked ford taurus on overtime by myself in plain clothing. This guy wants to fight. 1v1 with no cover within 15 minutes I was smart and left. He was always there and the NEXT day I knew I would go back. As promised I was back the next day in my marked patrol car with my nice police K9 to talk to this nice individual. Funny he didn't want to fight then. He then went to jail for the actions of the day before.

A heartwarming story.

LEO's learn early that BG's always get to make the first move. Then it's time to make ours.

Sometimes it's in seconds, or minutes. Other times the BG gets to gloat in thinking he got over because the response takes days, weeks, or years.

But that time always comes.

DLBConductor wrote:

Excaliber wrote:...There's no coercion here - just risk management decisions. The OP recognizes that driving a nice Mercedes is significantly more likely to attract the attention of bandits than an old Toyota. One needs to evaluate how much risk that carries against the pleasure of driving that machine, and decide if the increase in risk is worth it.

Risk can be managed in 4 ways:

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1) Avoid it ( by doing something different e.g., driving an older car)
2) Transfer it (buy lots of insurance so a loss has less impact - applies to things, not people)
3) Mitigate it (keep driving the car, but make adaptations - don't drive it into sketchy neighborhoods, increase situational awareness, don't go back to the car when suspicious persons are nearby, etc.)
4) Accept it (decide the pleasure of driving the car everywhere you go is worth the increased risk it carries)

DLBConductor wrote:Excaliber,

My wife and I spent some time today discussing your 4 ways of managing risk. Thus far, we have eliminated numbers 2 & 4 from the list. I am more concerned about my personal safety than about damage or loss to a vehicle. Unfortunately, this incident didn't happen in a "bad" area. These days the BGs seem to be everywhere. I am sure we will be discussing the other 2 options during the holidays.

You've recognized the fact that there is no such thing as a safe place that is immune to crime. What people call a "safe area" is one where bad things happen less frequently than they do elsewhere

I agree that the two risk management options you've chosen are the wisest ones for the situation you're dealing with.

BTW, while the specific response actions vary with situations, those 4 basic options apply to all types of risk, not just those related to criminality.

DLBConductor wrote:

Excaliber wrote:...I hope you also called the police and described the incident as soon as you were at a safe distance. Since they missed you, they would have immediately gone on the hunt for new and more compliant prey.

Excaliber wrote:...Incidentally, it's still not too late to make that call. Investigators looking into robberies in the area may well be able to pick up information they don't yet have from the information you could provide on descriptions, BG tactics, time of day, location, etc. that could help lead to an earlier arrest.

Excaliber,

I went by the Police Station today and gave a full accounting and descriptions. They will be on the lookout and patrol that area for the next week or so. Of course, it would have helped if I had immediately reported it.

I also went by the restaurant and met with the manager for about 30 minutes. She was very upset and concerned. They have signs posted that the lot is monitored but, in fact, there are no cameras. I realize the signs could be a deterrent but it seems to me that they are being a bit dishonest with the customers. In any case, she is going to start having an escort available whenever elderly people or single women leave the restaurant from now through the holidays.

All's well that ends well.

Now I need to go practice:

"STOP, DON'T COME ANY CLOSER!"

"CALL 911 AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!"

Well done!

TexasCajun wrote:The coercion comes from the thugs. I get that the world is what it is and that having nice things can make you a target. But I don't have to like it.

Agreed - we just have to live with it.

TexasCajun wrote:Glad it all turned out ok. I can't find any fault with the events as you've described them or any of the follow-up responses. The only thing that kind of irks me is the idea that in order to be less of a target, you'll need to give up your Mercedes. I understand that all actions come with consequences. But to work your whole life to be able to afford nicer things and then not be able to enjoy them because of some degenerate punks just doesn't sit well with me. It just seems like good, responsible, hard-working guys are being forced to give up more & more ground as each day passes.

There's no coercion here - just risk management decisions. The OP recognizes that driving a nice Mercedes is significantly more likely to attract the attention of bandits than an old Toyota. One needs to evaluate how much risk that carries against the pleasure of driving that machine, and decide if the increase in risk is worth it.

Risk can be managed in 4 ways:

1) Avoid it ( by doing something different e.g., driving an older car)
2) Transfer it (buy lots of insurance so a loss has less impact - applies to things, not people)
3) Mitigate it (keep driving the car, but make adaptations - don't drive it into sketchy neighborhoods, increase situational awareness, don't go back to the car when suspicious persons are nearby, etc.)
4) Accept it (decide the pleasure of driving the car everywhere you go is worth the increased risk it carries)

DLBConductor wrote:

Excaliber wrote:No doubt about it - you evaded a robbery.
Although it may have seemed like 90 seconds to you with all that the BG's were doing, and your analysis, decisions, and tactical execution of plan A with plan B ready to go, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it took only 20 - 25 seconds by the clock.
...I hope you also called the police and described the incident as soon as you were at a safe distance. Since they missed you, they would have immediately gone on the hunt for new and more compliant prey.

Excaliber,
I think you are correct that the whole incident probably took about 20-25 seconds at the very most. However, at the time, it seemed a lot longer. Everything was happening in slow motion.

Unfortunately, I did not have my phone with me, so I didn't think to call the police. If there ever is another occurrence, I will put that in my action plan. At the time, I actually felt relieved that I didn't have to draw my gun and then HAVE to call the police. It just didn't occur to me that I needed to call to protect others. One of my problems was not knowing whether I was over-reacting to two aggressive panhandlers or was really facing two robbers. After reading various comments on my thread, I think probably I did avoid being robbed. [Reading that just now caused a little tingle to go down my spine, which is ironic because I felt not the slightest bit of fear during the incident. Reflecting on the encounter now makes me realize how lucky I was.]

If there is anything I would have done differently, I would have yelled, "STOP! DON'T COME ANY CLOSER!" instead of, "I CAN'T HELP YOU!" This is something I will practice so it is second nature to me.

Thanks for your comments.

The perception that time slowed down is called tachypsychia and is caused by the involuntary release of chemicals into the bloodstream in response to a stressful event.

You didn't feel afraid because you had already thought through how you would respond to a situation like the one you faced, and when you were faced with the stimulus of the situation you reacted by implementing your plan. Panic happens when one is confronted by a threatening stimulus and, when the brain goes looking for the plan for that situation, it comes up with a "file not found" error.

After action review of an incident like this, no matter how well or how badly it turned out, is always a great thing to do. While you did enough things (practically everything) right to end the encounter without any negative impact to yourself, there are still a couple of small things that could be done better and they should be incorporated into the plan for the next time it's needed.

I'm not surprised that thinking about calling the police to alert them to a robbery team operating outside the restaurant wasn't the first thing on your mind when you made it out of there. It wasn't essential to managing the situation, and you were no doubt enjoying the sensation of relief that you had just dodged a bullet (figuratively if not literally). However, it's a good thing to do because by getting the LEO's looking for the pair right away, you might well save a less well prepared individual from a really nasty encounter.

Incidentally, it's still not too late to make that call. Investigators looking into robberies in the area may well be able to pick up information they don't yet have from the information you could provide on descriptions, BG tactics, time of day, location, etc. that could help lead to an earlier arrest.

No doubt about it - you evaded a robbery.

Panhandlers don't operate in pairs, and they don't run up on you from two directions.

Yes, your age and nice car fit the profile they were looking for and as soon as they saw it they moved in.

Although it may have seemed like 90 seconds to you with all that the BG's were doing, and your analysis, decisions, and tactical execution of plan A with plan B ready to go, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it took only 20 - 25 seconds by the clock.

Your situational awareness and efforts to think through a solid plan ahead of time paid off.

You didn't just do well - you did VERY well.

I hope you also called the police and described the incident as soon as you were at a safe distance. Since they missed you, they would have immediately gone on the hunt for new and more compliant prey.