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by C-dub
Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:07 pm
Forum: General Legislative Discussions
Topic: 5th Amendment - help please
Replies: 25
Views: 10010

Re: 5th Amendment - help please

TexasJohnBoy wrote:Don't "take the fifth," just don't talk.

http://www.vice.com/read/law-professor- ... n-survival
a little-known 2013 Supreme Court ruling allowing prosecutors to tell juries that defendants had invoked the Fifth Amendment—in other words, telling an officer you are making use of your right to remain silent could wind up being used as evidence against you.
Granted the original post is asking about the fifth in regards to testifying before congress, but I digress.
I'm not positive of the validity of this. I've been looking, but can't seem to find anything. I seem to remember a ruling in the last 5-10 years where a person did simply remain silent without actually asserting their 5A right and the court ruled that since they did not state that they were asserting that right, they didn't. Does anyone else remember this?
by C-dub
Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:41 pm
Forum: General Legislative Discussions
Topic: 5th Amendment - help please
Replies: 25
Views: 10010

Re: 5th Amendment - help please

srothstein wrote:C-Dub,

I think you might have missed a little bit or been misled about the Fifth Amendment and your protections and when it can be claimed. You cannot assert the Fifth in cases about other people to protect what you know about them. You can only assert it to protect yourself. But that applies to all cases where you are testifying, whether they are criminal, civil, legislative, or administrative. When the minions refuse to answer a question about something because they stand on their Fifth Amendment rights, it is a tacit admission that they did something illegal.

Many people seem to miss this point. You can be forced to testify against others, even if you did not wish to (well, you can be ordered to anyway). You cannot refuse to answer a question about someone else to protect that person. The Fifth says you cannot be forced to testify against yourself. This means that the answer you are refusing to give MUST be incriminating against you to be a valid invokement of the Fifth.

We have granted some other people protections of this sort against others, but not many. But then they are refusing to answer because of privilege (such as attorney-client or doctor-patient privilege) and not because of the Fifth. You do hear a lot of the minions refusing to answer in congressional hearings due to Executive Privilege, but that is different from claiming the Fifth. That is a principle that says the president (and by extension his employees in the executive branch) do not have to respond to the legislative branch (Congress) about what they are doing in certain cases. If you recall, the last AG was held in contempt of Congress for trying to claim this and the courts not agreeing about it.
Thanks for the explanation Steve. No one has misled me, it was all my misunderstanding of some of the little details and intricacies of this particular situation. So, by asserting their 5A right, they have admitted to doing something illegal, but thumbed their noses at everyone to prove it.
by C-dub
Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:33 am
Forum: General Legislative Discussions
Topic: 5th Amendment - help please
Replies: 25
Views: 10010

Re: 5th Amendment - help please

Of course, the 5A is important, but when did it become acceptable to assert it in non-criminal investigations about someone else? Unless, those hearings were considered criminal investigations. However, weren't some of those folks offered or given immunity deals? After that, for those that were, wouldn't they be considering to be obstructing?
by C-dub
Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:23 am
Forum: General Legislative Discussions
Topic: 5th Amendment - help please
Replies: 25
Views: 10010

5th Amendment - help please

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
With "pleading the fifth" becoming more and more prevalent among those being summoned to testify before congress or various senate hearings, I began wondering about this emphasized portion of the fifth amendment. Those hearings were not criminal cases. And nor are many other instances in which people invoke the fifth amendment. It goes without saying that I am obviously not a lawyer. It would seem that this protection has been expanded to include other areas not limited to criminal cases. Otherwise, how are these folks able to assert that right? I'm a bit confused over this.

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