TexasCHLforum.com

MeMelYup wrote:

JP171 wrote:

MeMelYup wrote:

psycho_bob42 wrote:In Bay City the Matagorda County Courthouse is posted with 30.06 signs at each entrance. The first floor of the building is used for tax offices and vehicle registration. The actual courtrooms are on the second floor.

They are classing it as a court building. I would like to see the law changed to Court Rooms and Offices if properly posted. Take building out of the equation.

this is what the law does say, it doesn't seem to me to mean the entire building but has been interpreted to mean that by county/city/state people



PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;

to me this means that you cannot go into court rooms, the clerks office or any other offices used by the court

The definition of premises is the building, such as premises of a school.

from 46.035


(3) “Premises” means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.


The red part I believe is more applicable to courthouse annexes as I believe that this was the intent of the law makers, not to keep someone going in to renew auto registration from being able to carry be cause there is a court room of a JP in the building. I believe that the main county courthouse is according to the law off limits as they are all courts or court offices with few exceptions. Court annexes are not, they are actually multi service centers and in my opinion should not and are not off limits as the whole building nor even the majority of the building is not for court use. I also believe that the governmental agencies that use them are sliding thru a grey area of the law and abusing a clause that was never intended to used as it is being used.

MeMelYup wrote:

psycho_bob42 wrote:In Bay City the Matagorda County Courthouse is posted with 30.06 signs at each entrance. The first floor of the building is used for tax offices and vehicle registration. The actual courtrooms are on the second floor.

They are classing it as a court building. I would like to see the law changed to Court Rooms and Offices if properly posted. Take building out of the equation.

this is what the law does say, it doesn't seem to me to mean the entire building but has been interpreted to mean that by county/city/state people



PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;

to me this means that you cannot go into court rooms, the clerks office or any other offices used by the court

rickbowers wrote:Can somebody cite me the state statute number reference for the improper posting on 30.06 on City properties. I'm trying to determine if the 30.06 posting on Hilton Americas is improper. I believe that they were allowed to build on public property, and now the restrict CHL access!

The Hilton building is a government owned building, owned by Houston Convention Center Inc, that used to be the Convention and Entertainment division if the City of Houston, the city has created a government organization (several actually) that do the management of the property, the Hilton Corp has a long tern contract to run the hotel, so yes you may carry there and cannot be charged nor prosecuted, however as everyone says concealed is Concealed



Tax Year: 2013 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006

HARRIS COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT
REAL PROPERTY ACCOUNT INFORMATION
1240990010001 PrintPrint EmailE-mail


Ownership History


Owner and Property Information


Owner Name &
Mailing Address:
HOUSTON CONVENTION CENTER
HOTEL CORP
901 BAGBY ST FL 1 This is the City Of Houston Address
HOUSTON TX 77002-2526



Legal Description:
RES A BLK 1
(POSSESSORY INTERESTS*
1240990010002 & 0003)
HOUSTON CONVENTION CNTR HOTEL


Property Address:
1600 LAMAR ST # 1200
HOUSTON TX 77002



State Class Code Land Use Code Building Class Total Units
XV -- Other Exempt (Government) 4610 -- Recreational/Health E 1200
Land Area Building Area Net Rentable Area Neighborhood Market Area Map Facet Key Map®
105,895 SF 1,220,000 0 5900 2301 -- Central Business District 5457C 493Q

sjfcontrol wrote:If there is a school bake-sale in the parking lot, or the marching band is practicing there, then yes, it's off limits. "Parking" is not a school sponsored activity.

'Actually yes it is, most highschools and many other schools have parking stickers for staff and students, therefore being able to tow the vehicle because of no sticker parking is a school sponsored activity

sjfcontrol wrote:But 46,035 defines Premises as:

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a
building. The term does not include any public or private driveway,
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other
parking area.

So school parking lots are not part of the "premises" of the school, and are not off limits to CHL.
And additionally they can't enforceably post 30.06 because the property is owned by the Govt. (Public Schools)

46:03 also says any grounds which a school sponsored activity is taking place, so if school is in session it is a school sponsored activity. it does not anywhere define what a school sponsored activity is.


mostly I am playing devils advocate here, I prefer to think that the parking area is and should be ok, but if a DA or ADA or city attorney has to take something like this to court, these are the arguments that I think will be used, and they are valid because things are left wide open


now speaking strictly about the Admin Center, that should NOT be off limits in any fashion either for parking or premisis

it sates in the governmental clause that unless it applies under 46:03 or 46:035 and I quote

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

therefore in my mind it makes the governmental clause not applicable to a school because the governemntal clause specifies 46:03

Reference PC 30:06 Section E :

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property
on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a
governmental entity and i s not a pr emises or other place on w hich the
license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section
46.03 or 46.035.

Keith B wrote:

JP171 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

JP171 wrote:its not improper, not illegal and does apply to the parking lot if its posted at the entrance to the lot

Actually it IS improper. A public school cannot post a 30.06 sign and enforce it as they are a government entity as they take tax monies. Not illegal, as there is no law that says they can't post it improperly. Doesn't really even apply to the school as they would not be charged with Criminal Trespass, but with carrying in a prohibited place under 46.03.

I remember that here abouts somewhere we had discussed and the consensus was that they could. as far as usnig "they take tax money" that has absolutly nothing to do with being a governent entity, many not for profit organizations recieve tax mony and are not considered government agencies. if I am in error about the parking area posting then I am corrected, as far as the law is concerned a school may be owned by a subdivision of the state but is exempt from the law stating that a governental building cannot be posted, and by logical thought I would still belive that a parking lot/area could be off limits thru 30:06

Public ISD's are government entities per case law and Attorney General Opinion. Here is a case where Arlington ISD is specifically called a governmental entity http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-of- ... 38398.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The property on which the parking lot is placed belongs to the school, so in turn it belongs to a governmental entity and can't be legally enforced. There is actually a post on here somewhere that one of the members got an email response from Plano ISD stating they know their signs are unenforceable (but they're still up.)

I already know and agree that ISD's are governmental entities, didn't disagree with that at all, there has to date been no case law that removes the 30:06 from being used for a school parking lot, mostly because that schools are catagorically exempted from the governmental clause thats all.

bones357 wrote:Somehow my post and the following post got confused.... so I'll start over...

There is an improperly posted sign at Texas Bexar County Commissioner office on Bander Hwy (Hwy 16). Formerly the Sylvia S. Ramos Bexar County Commissioner Office. They have a posted 30.06 sign in the front but they are just a tax collector office. ...

Reference PC 30:06 Section E :

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property
on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a
governmental entity and i s not a pr emises or other place on w hich the
license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section
46.03 or 46.035.
So... how do we go about reporting an improperly posted sign such as mentioned above so that it would be removed to prevent possible confusion.

TIA

you probably would have to go to Bexar county commissioners court, no penalty law here so no real way to force the issue

3d, I understand but thats not what he said LOL, but what actually makes them a governmental agency is actually the elections for the school board are open to anyone within a geographical area not a taxing base because without first being an elected from the citizenry at large in the defined area they can't tax anyone.

Believe me I am the first to complain that a ISD is a governemntal agecy same as MUD's and RFPD's and ESD's

Keith B wrote:

JP171 wrote:its not improper, not illegal and does apply to the parking lot if its posted at the entrance to the lot

Actually it IS improper. A public school cannot post a 30.06 sign and enforce it as they are a government entity as they take tax monies. Not illegal, as there is no law that says they can't post it improperly. Doesn't really even apply to the school as they would not be charged with Criminal Trespass, but with carrying in a prohibited place under 46.03.

I remember that here abouts somewhere we had discussed and the consensus was that they could. as far as usnig "they take tax money" that has absolutly nothing to do with being a governent entity, many not for profit organizations recieve tax mony and are not considered government agencies. if I am in error about the parking area posting then I am corrected, as far as the law is concerned a school may be owned by a subdivision of the state but is exempt from the law stating that a governental building cannot be posted, and by logical thought I would still belive that a parking lot/area could be off limits thru 30:06

its not improper, not illegal and does apply to the parking lot if its posted at the entrance to the lot

the Medical Museum is on the retail side of the street, not actually in hermann park, it is privately owned by a non profit orginization and can be posted as they see fit. just don't go there, write a letter to the board of directors that the policy is an invitation for a lawsuit


Owner and Property Information
Owner Name &
Mailing Address: MUSEUM MEDICAL SCIENCE
PO BOX 88087
HOUSTON TX 77288-0087

Legal Description: RES A BLK 1
JOHN P MCGOVERN MUSEUM
OF HEALTH & MEDICAL SCIENCE

Property Address: 1515 HERMANN DR
HOUSTON TX 77004

State Class Code Land Use Code Building Class Total Units
X2 -- Charitable Exempt 7500 -- Comm. Tabled Retail Land E 0
Land Area Building Area Net Rentable Area Neighborhood Neighborhood Group Market Area Map Facet Key Map®
74,527 SF 0 0 5903.01 0 4007 5355B 533A


Value Status Information
Capped Account Value Status Notice Date Shared CAD
No Noticed 04/27/2012 No


Exemptions and Jurisdictions
Exemption Type Districts Jurisdictions ARB Status 2011 Rate 2012 Rate Online
Tax Bill
Total
001 HOUSTON ISD Certified: 08/10/2012 1.156700 1.156700 View
040 HARRIS COUNTY Certified: 08/10/2012 0.391170 View
041 HARRIS CO FLOOD CNTRL Certified: 08/10/2012 0.028090
042 PORT OF HOUSTON AUTHY Certified: 08/10/2012 0.018560
043 HARRIS CO HOSP DIST Certified: 08/10/2012 0.192160
044 HARRIS CO EDUC DEPT Certified: 08/10/2012 0.006581
048 HOU COMMUNITY COLLEGE Certified: 08/10/2012 0.097222
061 CITY OF HOUSTON Certified: 08/10/2012 0.638750
944 GRTR SE MGMT DIST Certified: 08/10/2012 0.115000