it would create a firestorm in the ranks for sure, as a 19 year still serving soldier I would not obey such an unlawful order nor allow anyone in my company to follow such an unlawful ordertk1700 wrote:Mike.B wrote:Somebody is enforcing the gun laws in Washington.healthinsp wrote:Maybe I'm naïve...
Something that I fail to understand, and maybe I'm wrong, is how she can make the assumption that if the POTUS ordered the ATF, or military, or federal law enforcement to turn their weapons on their own mothers, fathers, brothers, friends, and family they would do it.
I don't believe they would.
I will make the argument that no one is enforcing the gun laws in Washington. Lawful citizens are following the law and the criminals are disrespecting the law like they do all over the country. Read any recent news article about the shootings in Chicago.
As far as the military confiscating firearms, I believe that would create much distention in the ranks. As a 33 year veteran, may times during my career I took an oath that included, "... to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic." As a second amendment rights supporter I would interpret that oath so that I would not have taken enforcement action to remove guns from law abiding US citizens. As with all things there are 2 sides to the story and I am guessing that there are people in the military that would not agree with me. I also believe (and hope!) that it is a small number that disagree,
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Return to “Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans”
- Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:11 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans
- Replies: 31
- Views: 4131
Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans
- Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:33 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans
- Replies: 31
- Views: 4131
Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans
The Annoyed Man wrote:I'd like to believe that, but I'm not so sure any longer......healthinsp wrote:Maybe I'm naïve...
Something that I fail to understand, and maybe I'm wrong, is how she can make the assumption that if the POTUS ordered the ATF, or military, or federal law enforcement to turn their weapons on their own mothers, fathers, brothers, friends, and family they would do it.
I don't believe they would.
I firmly believe if my friends in the military were ordered to come to my house and take my weapons they would deny that order as an illegal order.
Like I said, maybe I'm the one living in a fantasy world.
Considered individually, I'd say yes, you're probably correct. But when considered as larger units, I'd say that the individual's inclination to refuse immoral or illegal orders has a lot more inertia to overcome. In a group setting, it is easier to follow orders than to disobey them, and there is no reason to think that LEOs or military personnel are not human. I think the decision to disobey or follow orders is much more likely to come from the officer corps, and perhaps the NCO corps, than the lower enlisted ranks—not because enlisted people are unthinking automatons, but because officers and NCOs are trained to operate with a larger degree of autonomy than lower-ranked enlisted people, and that greater autonomy lends itself to consideration of larger issues and implications.
Now, I am NOT calling our military a bunch of nazis. To the contrary, I have a very high regard for them. But they ARE human, and human nature often fails to disappoint. It is easy to see how an individual soldier might be individually repelled by the idea of confiscating all guns, but when in a group setting might justify to himself "well, at least it's not like we are sending them to concentration camps.....we're just taking their guns......they'll be OK."
.....particularly if that individual soldier wasn't raised in a gun culture.....and never mind that the concentration camps might actually follow not that far behind the gun confiscations....
I just watched "Doctor Zhivago" again a week or so ago with my wife. It is amazing how the story portrays the incremental degradation of the society, and how the majority of people were just trying to survive whatever events swirled around them........the various military factions involved, and the brutality of troops against their own fellow citizenry.
TAM, I am not seeking a p match, but your belief of military of all types is somewhat skewed, we will not follow an unlawful order to either confiscate the weapons of the civilian population nor move them en mass to a re-education center, give 90% of the us military that order and get ready to be told where you can go and what you can do with yourself, politely but all the same. It doesn't matter what kind of culture you were raised in, the oath to the constitution comes before the oath to the CIC and most of us senior NCO's wouldn't even pass down such an illegal order to anyone, most officers are aware and feel the same and most of the junior enlisted would refuse if we did pass that kind of order down. Nor would we obey an unlawful order to open fire on civilians. The 10 percent that might do what your intimating would have a very short life expectancy measured in mere minutes, being an active member of a military force we do in fact do discuss this often and talk about what we would do if such orders were given. If the president of the US gave me such an order or all my SOC brothers the same he wouldn't be president long I promise you that, nor would anyone else that attempted to enforce such an order, nor would they be oxygen thieves anymore.