NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby sjfcontrol » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:30 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
sjfcontrol wrote:
NRA Position wrote:By Wayne LaPierre:

How have our nation's priorities gotten so far out of order? Think about it. We care about our money, so we protect our banks with armed guards. American airports, office buildings, power plants, courthouses — even sports stadiums — are all protected by armed security.


Far be it for me to disagree with Mr. LaPierre, maybe we just put our money in different banks. But in all my 61 years, I don't think I've ever been in a bank with an armed guard. In fact, when that was mentioned I immediately flashed on the "armed guard" in the Bank of Mayberry. He was about 75 years old and was always asleep in a chair. When Barney woke him up, he'd get up with a start and pull his revolver, which would fall into pieces on the floor. If we get armed guards for our schools, lets not base it on bank guards from the 1930's. :eek6


He's talking about federal reserve banks (extensive security) and those that are run by federal receivers. There may be others, but I'm not sure which ones.

Chas.


Well, as Emily Latella said -- "That's different, Nevermind!" :smilelol5:
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:39 pm

I've got to get off of here before I say something I regret.

The NRA has an excellent plan and it's already ringing true with rank and file Americans. We are not advocating expanding the federal government. We are not advocating any new agency. As Mojo84 stated, we would like to see some of the billions of dollars currently spent by the feds on domestic security guards/personnel and in foreign aid be redirected to be given to the states to fund additional security personnel in the schools. We want to see that money given to the states with no strings. We called upon congress and the President to do the right thing, but we're not naive. We also know that with the current administration, this isn't going to happen. That's why the NRA's "The National School Shield Program" is based primarily on volunteers.

In closing for the night, let me point out that gun owners are facing the biggest threat we've seen in decades. We cannot be divided, we cannot be distracted, we cannot spend time fighting amongst ourselves, if we are to win this battle.

If I've said anything that offends anyone tonight, then I sincerely apologize. I'm tired, I'm frustrated, and I'm tired of fighting for people when some of them seem more inclined to put a knife in the NRA's back than engage the enemy.

Good night all,
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby mojo84 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:47 pm

Put me down as a volunteer to help with the school shield program. I think with some training parents and teachers with CHLs can be a great fill in and supplement to the armed police and help defray some of the cost.
"The laws which forbid men to bear arms … only disarm those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes,” Cesare Beccaria, an Italian scholar, wrote in his 1764 treatise on the subject. “These laws make the victims of attack worse off and improve the position of the assailant.”
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby chartreuse » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:05 am

In a Christian spirit, I'd like to say that I truly appreciate the efforts of Charles and those like him.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:If I've said anything that offends anyone tonight, then I sincerely apologize. I'm tired, I'm frustrated, and I'm tired of fighting for people when some of them seem more inclined to put a knife in the NRA's back than engage the enemy.


That said, the above troubles me. Most of those who we disagree with are our fellow Americans, putting forth sincerely held, if misguided, beliefs. These people are our neighbours, our friends, our family. They are not enemy combatants and our mission is not to destroy them. Rather, it is to win them over and lead them towards enlightenment.

I find the jingoistic fervour around the NRA to be deeply troubling. The NRA is nothing more than a tool, employed by us to achieve our goals. Should its edge become blunt, then we would dress it. Should it break, then we would replace it. It is not and should never be, an object of veneration.
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby koconcept » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:18 am

I would much rather we spend money on police officers in schools than obama care, or green energy subsidies. At least putting a armed guard in my daughter school makes sense and is more palatable to the sheep than allowing teachers to carry. I dont understand why people have the aversion to let teachers carry if they let them have their kids for 9 hours a day. Any way Im all on board thought what wayne brought forward was perfect. Even better that the media picks it up like they do because it will get press he has a plan and people will unravel the media twist. Mabye not all but some. Next week ill be getting a life membership.
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby switch365 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:19 am

My first post... I hadn't heard this addressed yet. How effective would a single officer be to prevent a mass murder? Wouldn't he be the first casualty in any mass shooting, to get him out of the way of the killer? Concealed weapons, though, create uncertainty and anxiety in potential perpetrator. He would not know who was carrying in a field of potential victims.
Let's compare the two. An officer has a more or less set schedule, an office, and a high visibility. A concealed pistol is generally difficult to detect and could belong to one or many individuals in a school. The former is easy to remove from the equation but the latter is systemic.
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby mojo84 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:26 am

I think we should have both, armed police officer and armed staff. In addition, schools should allow CHL parents to supplement the other two.
Last edited by mojo84 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby XinTX » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:54 am

Thanks for clearing up the issue on the 'database' Charles. I wasn't aware some states, even after Va Tech, weren't providing input into that.

Also, I don't think Wayne was calling for any 'ban' or any regulations on video games and movies. But from comments I've seen here and other boards, it's apparent plenty of people did. I believe he was just addressing how the games and movies are a contributor, as Grossman did in "The Bulletproof Mind".

And some were given pause by his call for Congress to 'take action'. When Congress 'takes action', we get monstrosities like the TSA.

Having said that, I think their path is good to build a ground up, volunteer force starting at the local level. Because not each locality will be the same, each will likely need a unique solution.

Personally, I believe the best solution for TX is to remove the prohibition for CHL by the employees at all schools. Doesn't mean any WILL carry, nor would they be required to do so. But someone planning a shooting spree wouldn't then believe they'd have free rein inside a TX school. Just like the Aurora loony planned his target, they'd byplass places where there could be armed resisance to their murderous plot.
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby Right2Carry » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:18 am

The School Shield Video link that was posted had an information request form which I filled out. I am very interested in seeing how this program will grow and be implemented.

I am proud to be an NRA life member and I think they have the right approach. I will continue to try to convince people to join the NRA so that we can increase our numbers and funding.
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:29 am

chartreuse wrote:In a Christian spirit, I'd like to say that I truly appreciate the efforts of Charles and those like him.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:If I've said anything that offends anyone tonight, then I sincerely apologize. I'm tired, I'm frustrated, and I'm tired of fighting for people when some of them seem more inclined to put a knife in the NRA's back than engage the enemy.


That said, the above troubles me. Most of those who we disagree with are our fellow Americans, putting forth sincerely held, if misguided, beliefs. These people are our neighbours, our friends, our family. They are not enemy combatants and our mission is not to destroy them. Rather, it is to win them over and lead them towards enlightenment.

I find the jingoistic fervour around the NRA to be deeply troubling. The NRA is nothing more than a tool, employed by us to achieve our goals. Should its edge become blunt, then we would dress it. Should it break, then we would replace it. It is not and should never be, an object of veneration.

The "enemy" to which I referred is not the general public and I've never posted anything that would even suggest it. The "enemy" is made up of the anti-gun media that won't report the truth, Mayors Bloomberg, Cuomo, Emanuel and others who ignore the fact that gun control doesn't work yet call for gun bans, the Brady Campaign, and a litany of other people and organizations who want to use the Newtown massacre to further a long-held political goal rather than support a plan that will actually make our schools safer. We are not calling for a new bureaucracy, federal government intervention, or adding to the national debt. We would like to have congress divert some of the billions of dollars going to countries who hate us in the form of foreign aid so it can be used to protect our children. The $500 million Obma gave to Solyndra would go a long way to putting needed armed security in thousands of schools around the country. (Houston I.S.D. is one of the largest school districts in the country and they estimated that it would take $10 million to add enough additional campus officers to have them on every campus.) Knowing that is unlikely, we have started a program to create a workable plan that will be largely voluntary. (People are already signing up to be volunteers!)

We have perennial NRA bashers here on the forum and their tactics are so transparent. They spin, twist, quote out of context, or flat out lie about the NRA. I see this starting with the new, critically important National School Shield effort. I'm a very experienced civil trial attorney with a very good win/loss record and I know how easy it is to spin the truth by quoting something out of context, or leaving out critical statements, when one is not subject to grueling cross-examination. One of my favorite trial tactics is to catch someone doing that, then show the jury the entire document. It destroys the credibility of those who would deceive with half-truths and they rarely recover in the jury's eyes. The NRA doesn't want to merely avoid further gun laws, though that is obviously a goal. We also want to do something that truly will make schools safer so no parent has to go through the unimaginable grief and despair the Sandy Hook parents are suffering now.

How many times have we blasted the leaders of the anti-gun crowd for deliberately misquoting a Second Amendment supporter or organization, or taking their statements or actions out of context so they could launch an unwarranted attack? Well, the anti-gun crowd aren't the only people who adopt such intellectually dishonest tactics. I never said nor even hinted that the general public is the "enemy." Indeed, if you will search my posts you will see that I have always called for us to win over the vast majority of Americans who are neither NRA Members, nor members of the anti-gun movement. I've let it be known that I don't like the term "sheeple" because it's insulting and demeaning to millions of Americans we need to bring to our side of the table by showing them the truth, as opposed to the lies told about guns, gun owners and the NRA. You don't win people to your side of an issue when you start with "Now listen to me you coward" and calling someone "sheeple" is doing just that. I know full well who the enemies of the Second Amendment are and they are not honest citizens who have been lied to and mislead by the media and dishonest politicians seeking only their own reelection.

The NRA doesn't attack the general public either. We're not fools; we don't attack and insult the very people we are asking to join the organization and fight for the Second Amendment. We tell the truth about those who lie about crime, gun control and the NRA.


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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby Oldgringo » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:34 am

mojo84 wrote:Put me down as a volunteer to help with the school shield program. I think with some training parents and teachers with CHLs can be a great fill in and supplement to the armed police and help defray some of the cost.

:iagree: The cost could easily be covered with corresponding reductions in the vast amount of money we waste on foreign aid AND this is a state by state BY THE STATES program - NOT another federal program.

Good job, Charles and you're right; the battle is far from over.
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby chartreuse » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:10 am

Lots of good stuff there, Charles. We likely agree on more than we disagree.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:We have perennial NRA bashers here on the forum and their tactics are so transparent. They spin, twist, quote out of context, or flat out lie about the NRA. I see this starting with the new, critically important National School Shield effort. I'm a very experienced civil trial attorney with a very good win/loss record and I know how easy it is to spin the truth by quoting something out of context, or leaving out critical statements, when one is not subject to grueling cross-examination. One of my favorite trial tactics is to catch someone doing that, then show the jury the entire document. It destroys the credibility of those who would deceive with half-truths and they rarely recover in the jury's eyes. The NRA doesn't want to merely avoid further gun laws, though that is obviously a goal. We also want to do something that truly will make schools safer so no parent has to go through the unimaginable grief and despair the Sandy Hook parents are suffering now.


I hope that you understand that I'm not one of those bashers. I certainly understand that the NRA's primary mission is defence of our 2nd Amendment rights - it's just that those rights don't exist in a vacuum and I would prefer that any defence of them was sensitive to the broader context.

Mass shootings, while unimaginably tragic are also uncommon. The problem of high-impact, low-probability events is a textbook example of humanity's flawed thinking on risk-analysis. Hysteria is rarely a wise response to hysteria and the NRA's position - throwing the First Amendment under a bus, proposing a bureaucratic "program" (led by a man from Homeland Security, the dictionary definition of waste and excess, for goodness sake) seems like a hysterical over-reaction. The problem, if problem there is, is that so-called "Gun Free Zones" present an attractive nuisance to deranged individuals. Eliminating that nuisance, by removing the prohibition on regular, law abiding folks possessing the means of defence in such areas (as hinted at by Greg Abbot) would seem to be a more proportionate and rational response.
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:07 pm

chartreuse wrote:I hope that you understand that I'm not one of those bashers.

I'll accept your statement on this issue, but why then do you repeatedly claim the NRA is calling for a new federal bureaucracy? Why do you claim the NRA is throwing the 1st Amendment under the buss, when it's clear there's no basis for that claim? You even attack Asa Hutchinson because you don't like Homeland Security, yet you don't know the first thing about the man. You imply he'll be wasting federal funding, but 100% of his budget comes from the NRA.

chartreuse wrote:Mass shootings, while unimaginably tragic are also uncommon.

True, but risk analysis involves evaluating both the likelihood of an untoward event and the severity of the consequences. I dare say you will never find anyone who's willing to say that losing twenty six year old children per incident is an acceptable loss rate. The country is going to respond to this massacre either with gun control or something that works. The NRA chose the latter

chartreuse wrote:Hysteria is rarely a wise response to hysteria and the NRA's position - throwing the First Amendment under a bus, proposing a bureaucratic "program" (led by a man from Homeland Security, the dictionary definition of waste and excess, for goodness sake) seems like a hysterical over-reaction.

The NRA did no such thing and no rational argument can be made that we did. The NRA also did not call for a "bureaucratic program." The National School Shield is a private program fully funded by the NRA and headed by Congressman Asa Hutchinson. The final work product of this private program (think tank if you will) will include recommendations that will rely heavily on volunteers, just as Wayne and Asa said in the press conference. My personal opinion is that it will set up a network that will bring volunteers, school districts, and law enforcement together and the NRA will offer its extensive training capabilities. Based upon his comments set out below, apparently Asa has the same vision for this program.


Wayne LaPierre wrote:The NRA is going to bring all of its knowledge, dedication and resources to develop a model National School Shield Emergency Response Program for every school that wants it. From armed security to building design and access control to information technology to student and teacher training, this multi-faceted program will be developed by the very best experts in their fields.

Former Congressman Asa Hutchinson will lead this effort as National Director of the National School Shield Program, with a budget provided by the NRA of whatever scope the task requires. His experience as a U.S. Attorney, Director of the Drug Enforcement Agency and Undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security will give him the knowledge and expertise to hire the most knowledgeable and credentialed experts available anywhere, to get this program up and running from the first day forward.


Asa Hutchinson wrote:Even though we are just starting this process, I envision this initiative will have two key elements: First, it would be based on a model security plan — a comprehensive strategy for school security based on the latest, most up-to-date technical information from the foremost experts in their fields.

. . .

Every school and community is different, but this model security plan will allow every school to choose among its various components to develop a school safety strategy that fits their own unique situation, whether it's a large urban school, a small rural school or anything in between.

. . .

The second point I want to make is that this will be a program that doesn't depend on massive funding from local authorities or the federal government. Instead, it'll make use of local volunteers serving in their own communities. In my home state of Arkansas, my son was a volunteer with a local group called "Watchdog Dads," who volunteer their time at schools to patrol playgrounds and provide a measure of added security.

Whether they're retired police, retired military or rescue personnel, I think there are people in every community in this country, who would be happy to serve, if only someone asked them and gave them the training and certification to do so.


At this point, I realize nothing is going to change your mind. The NRA has not called for the things you have claimed, and no amount of proof is going to dissuade you from continuing in your belief.

I'll give you the final word because I'm finished.

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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby mojo84 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:46 pm

I think another example of how things get spun and misrepresented is how the media is saying the NRA is callimg for more guns. I don't think they are calling for more guns. It's my opinion they are calling for more of us to get off our rearends and be part of the solution by getting actively involved and that we be allowed to use the guns we already have to help protect our kids and make schools safer.

Just heard a segment on FoxNews saying the NRA is calling for more guns to solve the problem. The problem is a people problem and the solution is a people solutions. Just as guns aren't the problem, neither are they the solution. We need to focus less on guns and more on people if we really want a solution. I think that is what the NRA tried to communicate and that is what I heard.
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Re: NRA press conference LIVE 9:45AM CST

Postby Panzer Possum » Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:19 pm

mojo84 wrote:I think another example of how things get spun and misrepresented is how the media is saying the NRA is callimg for more guns. I don't think they are calling for more guns. It's my opinion they are calling for more of us to get off our rearends and be part of the solution by getting actively involved and that we be allowed to use the guns we already have to help protect our kids and make schools safer.

A good first step is repealing the GFSZA which helps mass murderers by making sure victims can't shoot back.
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