TX: Humble woman charged with murder after claiming self defense after a homeless woman aggressively approached

[philip964]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/loca ... uties-say/

Humble is near Houston on the Northeast side.

She was walking her dog. When the homeless woman approached her in a grocery store parking lot, she pulled her gun and shot the woman once.

I’m a little on the fence here. I don’t want a homeless person getting too close to me, but I’m not sure that approaches in fear for my life.

If you have your dog, your not going to the grocery store. Are you trespassing?

[Tex1961]

Curious as to how many of these situations we will see after 9/1.

And yeah yeah. Before anyone gets their shorts in a wad I’m very familiar with the stats and history of states that have implemented unlicensed carry. I’m fully aware it’s not going to be the wild Wild West out there. But I’m not going to be surprised when more incidents like this happen.

[Noggin]

One of the reasons I carry a combination CS/Pepper Spray in a pouch next to my spare mag is so that I have non-lethal 1st Line option for situations that don''t present an immediate threat of death.

[Soccerdad1995]

I need alot more info here before I can make a reasonable comment. I can see a scenario where she might reasonably be in fear for her life, but there is nowhere near enough in this story to make an assessment.

[Paladin]

Without having the video and hearing the testimony we can't make an informed judgement.

To be trespassing there has to be notice. That particular Food Town is part of a strip mall next to a residential area. The shooting took place at night. My first impression is that Food Town's tend to be on the sketchy side as far as supermarkets go, and there is no background as far as the women who was shot. Drugs, alcohol, and mental illness are almost universal around here with the homeless, and a few get very aggressive asking for money "I just got out of jail, can you give me $$$?"

I'm too cynical to believe anyone anymore, so the evidence is what counts.

[Noggin]

One of the reasons I carry a combination CS/Pepper Spray in a pouch next to my spare mag is so that I have non-lethal 1st Line option for situations that don''t present an immediate threat of death.

I know there are people who say they are not "a pepper spray person". I however think that is bull, I have read a number of articles that suggest it is sensible to have something between going "hand to hand" or letting bullets fly. Of course there will be scenarios when getting an aimed shot off in less than 2 seconds is vital but to assume that is the only response you need is crazy. To use an old strategic military expression ''Flexible Response" gives you more options than "Massive Retaliation". So I also carry a CS/Pepper spary on my left hip with my spare mag.

[03Lightningrocks]

My theory on OC/Pepper spray is that if I am in a situation that calls for OC/Pepper spray, I am likely also in a situation requiring self defense using deadly force. Using OC/Pepper spray first may cost me my life as they stab me from getting up close. Now I am not going to use any weapon on someone because they ask me for money or spare change. I will be hand on my weapon, just in case, but not until I feel in jeopardy for my life.

I have had street people ask for money/spare change. I just say, "sorry, I don't carry cash." and watch them as I keep moving. The article said, "aggressively approaches". Not sure what exactly that means but maybe she wouldn't walk away and kept coming at her.

[K.Mooneyham]

So, serious question, what does Texas law have to say about the use of OC/Pepper Spray? Where does it fall in the use of force spectrum? Applying it to a hypothetical real world scenario, what would the potential ramifications be of using it on an overly aggressive homeless guy who doesn't have any weapon in hand? By overly aggressive, I mean physically coming at you, trying to put hands on you? I know there could be a thousand different situations, but I'm just trying to think of a situation where it might be useful.

[03Lightningrocks]

So, serious question, what does Texas law have to say about the use of OC/Pepper Spray? Where does it fall in the use of force spectrum? Applying it to a hypothetical real world scenario, what would the potential ramifications be of using it on an overly aggressive homeless guy who doesn't have any weapon in hand? By overly aggressive, I mean physically coming at you, trying to put hands on you? I know there could be a thousand different situations, but I'm just trying to think of a situation where it might be useful.

If the situation calls for OC/Pepper spray, it seems to me it also calls for deadly force. I have no intentions at my age of engaging in a hand to hand combat with an aggressor.

We can't attack someone just because they won't quit badgering us verbally. It seems they would have to be coming at us with a weapon or with an attempt at hands on contact. OC/Pepper spray is just affective enough to allow them to stab you or crack you over the head with a bat or stick. Maybe punch you in the face and knock you out. Sorry folks, I am no cop and if I need to use self defense, I am going with my most affective stopping power first. OC/Pepper spray is OK for the "ninja warrior" wanna be but for me I am stopping the threat as affectively as the law allows.

[Excaliber]

So, serious question, what does Texas law have to say about the use of OC/Pepper Spray? Where does it fall in the use of force spectrum? Applying it to a hypothetical real world scenario, what would the potential ramifications be of using it on an overly aggressive homeless guy who doesn't have any weapon in hand? By overly aggressive, I mean physically coming at you, trying to put hands on you? I know there could be a thousand different situations, but I'm just trying to think of a situation where it might be useful.

If the situation calls for OC/Pepper spray, it seems to me it also calls for deadly force. I have no intentions at my age of engaging in a hand to hand combat with an aggressor.

We can't attack someone just because they won't quit badgering us verbally. It seems they would have to be coming at us with a weapon or with an attempt at hands on contact. OC/Pepper spray is just affective enough to allow them to stab you or crack you over the head with a bat or stick. Maybe punch you in the face and knock you out. Sorry folks, I am no cop and if I need to use self defense, I am going with my most affective stopping power first. OC/Pepper spray is OK for the "ninja warrior" wanna be but for me I am stopping the threat as affectively as the law allows.

The "as effectively as the law allows" part is the problem.

Example: Unwanted touching is not a situation where the law generally allows deadly force (unless you've got an awfully good and imaginative lawyer and a lot of money to spend on him) but is a situation where OC can get the aggressor to back off with little risk of injury to yourself.

It has a place on the use of force spectrum and can save you a lot of unnecessary grief in unpleasant situations. That's why many LEO's carry it.

[03Lightningrocks]

So, serious question, what does Texas law have to say about the use of OC/Pepper Spray? Where does it fall in the use of force spectrum? Applying it to a hypothetical real world scenario, what would the potential ramifications be of using it on an overly aggressive homeless guy who doesn't have any weapon in hand? By overly aggressive, I mean physically coming at you, trying to put hands on you? I know there could be a thousand different situations, but I'm just trying to think of a situation where it might be useful.

If the situation calls for OC/Pepper spray, it seems to me it also calls for deadly force. I have no intentions at my age of engaging in a hand to hand combat with an aggressor.

We can't attack someone just because they won't quit badgering us verbally. It seems they would have to be coming at us with a weapon or with an attempt at hands on contact. OC/Pepper spray is just affective enough to allow them to stab you or crack you over the head with a bat or stick. Maybe punch you in the face and knock you out. Sorry folks, I am no cop and if I need to use self defense, I am going with my most affective stopping power first. OC/Pepper spray is OK for the "ninja warrior" wanna be but for me I am stopping the threat as affectively as the law allows.

The "as effectively as the law allows" part is the problem.

Example: Unwanted touching is not a situation where the law generally allows deadly force (unless you've got an awfully good and imaginative lawyer and a lot of money to spend on him) but is a situation where OC can get the aggressor to back off with little risk of injury to yourself.

It has a place on the use of force spectrum and can save you a lot of unnecessary grief in unpleasant situations. That's why many LEO's carry it.

At 61 years of age, I have yet to feel the need to squirt OC spray at someone for touching me. I can't imagine a scenario where some homeless guy just walks up and touches me. And if he did, I would not shoot him or even squirt pepper spray in his face. I pass by folks all the time in stores and other situations where they might brush up against me(touch me) and again, never feel the need to attack them. The totality of the situation determines my response. "I have a boogie on my finger and am gonna wipe it on you." Would not compel me to either shoot a guy or squirt him with OC spray. I would try to back away. Boogies on finger touching really gross me out.

[K.Mooneyham]

So, serious question, what does Texas law have to say about the use of OC/Pepper Spray? Where does it fall in the use of force spectrum? Applying it to a hypothetical real world scenario, what would the potential ramifications be of using it on an overly aggressive homeless guy who doesn't have any weapon in hand? By overly aggressive, I mean physically coming at you, trying to put hands on you? I know there could be a thousand different situations, but I'm just trying to think of a situation where it might be useful.

If the situation calls for OC/Pepper spray, it seems to me it also calls for deadly force. I have no intentions at my age of engaging in a hand to hand combat with an aggressor.

We can't attack someone just because they won't quit badgering us verbally. It seems they would have to be coming at us with a weapon or with an attempt at hands on contact. OC/Pepper spray is just affective enough to allow them to stab you or crack you over the head with a bat or stick. Maybe punch you in the face and knock you out. Sorry folks, I am no cop and if I need to use self defense, I am going with my most affective stopping power first. OC/Pepper spray is OK for the "ninja warrior" wanna be but for me I am stopping the threat as affectively as the law allows.

The "as effectively as the law allows" part is the problem.

Example: Unwanted touching is not a situation where the law generally allows deadly force (unless you've got an awfully good and imaginative lawyer and a lot of money to spend on him) but is a situation where OC can get the aggressor to back off with little risk of injury to yourself.

It has a place on the use of force spectrum and can save you a lot of unnecessary grief in unpleasant situations. That's why many LEO's carry it.

At 61 years of age, I have yet to feel the need to squirt OC spray at someone for touching me. I can't imagine a scenario where some homeless guy just walks up and touches me. And if he did, I would not shoot him or even squirt pepper spray in his face. I pass by folks all the time in stores and other situations where they might brush up against me(touch me) and again, never feel the need to attack them. The totality of the situation determines my response. "I have a boogie on my finger and am gonna wipe it on you." Would not compel me to either shoot a guy or squirt him with OC spray. I would try to back away. Boogies on finger touching really gross me out.

I obviously did a poor job of describing the scenario. I didn't mean a simple unwanted touch or brush up against, or simply panhandling. I meant coming toward you in an aggressive manner (visibly angry or otherwise extremely mentally agitated, lot of homeless folks have mental problems and/or are drunk/on drugs), hurling invectives, trying to grab you, etc. But, again, without any weapon in hand.

[03Lightningrocks]

So, serious question, what does Texas law have to say about the use of OC/Pepper Spray? Where does it fall in the use of force spectrum? Applying it to a hypothetical real world scenario, what would the potential ramifications be of using it on an overly aggressive homeless guy who doesn't have any weapon in hand? By overly aggressive, I mean physically coming at you, trying to put hands on you? I know there could be a thousand different situations, but I'm just trying to think of a situation where it might be useful.

If the situation calls for OC/Pepper spray, it seems to me it also calls for deadly force. I have no intentions at my age of engaging in a hand to hand combat with an aggressor.

We can't attack someone just because they won't quit badgering us verbally. It seems they would have to be coming at us with a weapon or with an attempt at hands on contact. OC/Pepper spray is just affective enough to allow them to stab you or crack you over the head with a bat or stick. Maybe punch you in the face and knock you out. Sorry folks, I am no cop and if I need to use self defense, I am going with my most affective stopping power first. OC/Pepper spray is OK for the "ninja warrior" wanna be but for me I am stopping the threat as affectively as the law allows.

The "as effectively as the law allows" part is the problem.

Example: Unwanted touching is not a situation where the law generally allows deadly force (unless you've got an awfully good and imaginative lawyer and a lot of money to spend on him) but is a situation where OC can get the aggressor to back off with little risk of injury to yourself.

It has a place on the use of force spectrum and can save you a lot of unnecessary grief in unpleasant situations. That's why many LEO's carry it.

At 61 years of age, I have yet to feel the need to squirt OC spray at someone for touching me. I can't imagine a scenario where some homeless guy just walks up and touches me. And if he did, I would not shoot him or even squirt pepper spray in his face. I pass by folks all the time in stores and other situations where they might brush up against me(touch me) and again, never feel the need to attack them. The totality of the situation determines my response. "I have a boogie on my finger and am gonna wipe it on you." Would not compel me to either shoot a guy or squirt him with OC spray. I would try to back away. Boogies on finger touching really gross me out.

I obviously did a poor job of describing the scenario. I didn't mean a simple unwanted touch or brush up against, or simply panhandling. I meant coming toward you in an aggressive manner (visibly angry or otherwise extremely mentally agitated, lot of homeless folks have mental problems and/or are drunk/on drugs), hurling invectives, trying to grab you, etc. But, again, without any weapon in hand.

So he is attacking me? I am gonna stop him. If I was 6'5" tall and 32 years old, maybe I would try hand to hand combat and hope he doesn't pull a knife out and stab me. But then again, the law would allow me to stop the aggressor. That is the whole damned point in carrying concealed. To protect myself from an attack that could easily result in my death.

[PriestTheRunner]

Coming up on a year old in this thread. Any updates on what her charge was?

[The Annoyed Man]

So, serious question, what does Texas law have to say about the use of OC/Pepper Spray? Where does it fall in the use of force spectrum? Applying it to a hypothetical real world scenario, what would the potential ramifications be of using it on an overly aggressive homeless guy who doesn't have any weapon in hand? By overly aggressive, I mean physically coming at you, trying to put hands on you? I know there could be a thousand different situations, but I'm just trying to think of a situation where it might be useful.

If the situation calls for OC/Pepper spray, it seems to me it also calls for deadly force. I have no intentions at my age of engaging in a hand to hand combat with an aggressor.

We can't attack someone just because they won't quit badgering us verbally. It seems they would have to be coming at us with a weapon or with an attempt at hands on contact. OC/Pepper spray is just affective enough to allow them to stab you or crack you over the head with a bat or stick. Maybe punch you in the face and knock you out. Sorry folks, I am no cop and if I need to use self defense, I am going with my most affective stopping power first. OC/Pepper spray is OK for the "ninja warrior" wanna be but for me I am stopping the threat as affectively as the law allows.

The "as effectively as the law allows" part is the problem.

Example: Unwanted touching is not a situation where the law generally allows deadly force (unless you've got an awfully good and imaginative lawyer and a lot of money to spend on him) but is a situation where OC can get the aggressor to back off with little risk of injury to yourself.

It has a place on the use of force spectrum and can save you a lot of unnecessary grief in unpleasant situations. That's why many LEO's carry it.

At 61 years of age, I have yet to feel the need to squirt OC spray at someone for touching me. I can't imagine a scenario where some homeless guy just walks up and touches me. And if he did, I would not shoot him or even squirt pepper spray in his face. I pass by folks all the time in stores and other situations where they might brush up against me(touch me) and again, never feel the need to attack them. The totality of the situation determines my response. "I have a boogie on my finger and am gonna wipe it on you." Would not compel me to either shoot a guy or squirt him with OC spray. I would try to back away. Boogies on finger touching really gross me out.

I took to carrying OC spray about a year ago or so. I’ll be 70 in October…a thing about which I’m still having trouble wrapping my mind around it. As John Correia words it, the OC spray gives me an option that is "between a harsh word and a gun".

OTH, you try to wipe a green boogie on me, you gonna die.