11 year old boy shoots 8 year old girl to death on purpose

[K.Mooneyham]

Most of us were exposed to a lot of movies with shooting in them; most of us, by a huge margin, have never shot anyone over something as trivial as a puppy. In fact, most of us have never shot anyone at all, and would really rather not have to, either. Lots of us have played video games that would probably be considered violent; once again, no shooting as a result. Ditto for listening to rough music and all the other stuff. I agree with MiddleAgedRuss, it's a lack of parenting, and a lack of standards, most of the time. However, I'm also of the mind that some small number of people are just plain bad, and that even the best parents couldn't fix them. I read that Joe Stalin had a rough childhood, but I still believe he'd done bad stuff even if he'd have had a perfect childhood.

[sugar land dave]

When the parents in a society are more interested in themselves and seeking pleasure than raising their children, that society is ripe for a reset. The lack of real parenting is the issue in too many cases like this -- sidelines like video games are simply another variable along with this constant. We are reaping the whirlwind of social experimentation and public policy that destroys families -- the bedrock of society -- and attempts to replace them with "programs".

Parents are not there to be our children's best friend (though we sometimes are). We are to be parents first and foremost -- providing the necessities of food, clothing and shelter, as well as instruction, consistency, nurturing, discipline, a values/behavioral model, encouragement and support, to name a few. People who fail to provide these by oversight or by willful negligence are doing a dis-service to themselves, their children and posterity. Policies that erode the importance of families likewise are poison to a healthy society.

This is what you get when the "political correctness" of socialism (communism) is allowed to fester unchecked within education and religious facilities of American society. Yet this is but a mere foreshadowing of what is yet to come if strong men of moral fabric do not come forth again to lead our country. Frankly I do not think such will be found as I look beyond the pomp and show of political advisors.

[Charles L. Cotton]

When the parents in a society are more interested in themselves and seeking pleasure than raising their children, that society is ripe for a reset. The lack of real parenting is the issue in too many cases like this -- sidelines like video games are simply another variable along with this constant. We are reaping the whirlwind of social experimentation and public policy that destroys families -- the bedrock of society -- and attempts to replace them with "programs".

Parents are not there to be our children's best friend (though we sometimes are). We are to be parents first and foremost -- providing the necessities of food, clothing and shelter, as well as instruction, consistency, nurturing, discipline, a values/behavioral model, encouragement and support, to name a few. People who fail to provide these by oversight or by willful negligence are doing a dis-service to themselves, their children and posterity. Policies that erode the importance of families likewise are poison to a healthy society.

Excellent!
Chas.

[Beiruty]

When the parents in a society are more interested in themselves and seeking pleasure than raising their children, that society is ripe for a reset. The lack of real parenting is the issue in too many cases like this -- sidelines like video games are simply another variable along with this constant. We are reaping the whirlwind of social experimentation and public policy that destroys families -- the bedrock of society -- and attempts to replace them with "programs".

Parents are not there to be our children's best friend (though we sometimes are). We are to be parents first and foremost -- providing the necessities of food, clothing and shelter, as well as instruction, consistency, nurturing, discipline, a values/behavioral model, encouragement and support, to name a few. People who fail to provide these by oversight or by willful negligence are doing a dis-service to themselves, their children and posterity. Policies that erode the importance of families likewise are poison to a healthy society.

Excellent!
Chas.

We need "fathering and mothering" control too. So many papa and mama are so irresponsible that they need not have descendants.

Some ideas to float :

1) Marriage education certification
2) Fathering and Mothering certification
3) Unannounced drug tests.

[talltex]

Most of us were exposed to a lot of movies with shooting in them; most of us, by a huge margin, have never shot anyone over something as trivial as a puppy. I agree with MiddleAgedRuss, it's a lack of parenting, and a lack of standards, most of the time. However, I'm also of the mind that some small number of people are just plain bad, and that even the best parents couldn't fix them. I

Agreed. Most of us in the baby boom generation grew up with a steady diet of westerns and WWII movies, both at the movies and on TV...the bad guys got shot, grabbed there belly and fell over dead...usually without any screaming or any blood showing. Compared to the gory, realistic death scenes in movies and video games for the last 25 years, if ANY kids should have thought shooting someone wasn't a big deal, it was us...not the ones who have been subjected to the graphic depictions of recent years. I'm also sure that such things like the "puppy shooter" may have happened years ago, but no one outside of a small geographical area ever heard about it prior to the internet. There ARE some kids, and adults, that have some serious problems with behavior and control...I'd be surprised if that 11 year old doesn't have a history of behavioral problems that his parents were well aware of. By the time we were 10 or 11, most of my friends and I were hunting up and down the river with 22 rifles, on our own, without adult supervision, and none of us ever accidentally shot anything or anyone. By the time we were in high school and driving, we had guns in our vehicles out in the parking lot and there was never a problem of any kind. I DO believe that parenting makes a huge difference, but I also lend credence to the "bad egg" scenario too.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I'm certainly no expert on the impact of violent movies, music and video games on the propensity of a person to commit acts of violence. Like many folks, for years I scoffed at the idea that there was a cause and effect relationship between violent movies and violent acts. I still believe that there is no link between violent movies and violent acts except in rare occasions when a person is already prone to violence and the movies feed their fantasies. I base this on articles written by mental health professionals.

The link between violent movies and violence-prone people seems to be the desensitizing effect of the movies. I saw the Wild Bunch when it came out in 1969. I was 19 years old. It was the first movie to use blood-packs to simulate a bullet penetrating a body and it was dramatic! It was praised and demonized by the public, elected officials and many mental health professionals. At 19 I had been shooting for 15 years and hunting for 9 years. Nevertheless, I winced when I saw the blood splatter from someone's back when they were shot. Now, 46 years and thousands of violent movies later, I can eat dinner and drink tomato juice while watching the most violent and bloody of battle scenes. (I'm not talking about slasher movies that I detest. I'm talking about war movies, COP shows, etc.) Violent movies do desensitize all of us to violence, but only a few are prompted to commit violent acts. As gun owners, we know that a free society cannot enact laws based upon the lowest common denominator.

The impact of violent video games and "music" that glorifies violence is far less certain. There is some evidence that participating in violent video games tends to remove our built-in safety valves, our natural resistance to killing our fellow man. Lt. Col. Grossman's books and others delve into this a bit. Grossman discusses the historical reluctance of soldiers to actually fire their weapons at the enemy, even when their own lives hang in the balance. He also discusses how this has changed with changes in infantry training. The switch from bullseye targets to humanoid targets during training resulted in a significant reduction in the reluctance of American servicemen to engage the enemy during the Vietnam War. The percentage of men that would not fire, or that would fire over the enemy's head, was dramatically reduced. This percentage was reduced further during the Gulf Wars when infantry training included simulated firefight engagements -- video games.

Thus, we know that practicing for battle using what are essentially violent video games has an impact on the willingness of ordinary men and women to use deadly force against other humans. However, to relate this directly to violence in society is problematic. Soldiers are being trained to kill the enemy, most of whom are trying to kill them or their brothers-in-arms, not innocent people on the street, or family members. Again, I'm a lawyer playing amateur psychiatrist, but it believe that the age at which this "training for violence" begins, the amount of "training" one receives, the amount of parental oversight and involvement the child/person receives, and the natural propensity of the child/person to violence are all factors.

As already stated, we cannot make gun laws or censor free speech (music, games, movies) based upon the lowest common denominator. Living in a free society has a cost, but that cost can and must be lowered by responsible parents doing the job of being mom and dad. If you love your kids, you do everything you can to protect them, to make them happy, to encourage them and help them build self-esteem. If you love them a lot, then you have the courage and self-discipline to do the hard part too, not just the things that put make them happy. We learn to be responsible adults through both smiles and tears. To paraphrase a popular adage about combat training, cry a little as a child, or wail a lot as an adult. This holds true for both the individual as well as society.

Chas.

[Middle Age Russ]

, Charles.

I also agree with those who have said that there are also "bad apples", or people with an innate propensity for criminal violence. As long as there are people, there will be those who see other people simply as prey or as objects to be manipulated to a desired end.

[bigity]

I shot and killed animals long before I played any video games. As someone who enjoys video games quite a bit, I am rather sick of that statement. It's about as silly as saying guns cause people to kill people.