New Article: Stop Posting Unenforceable 30.06 Signs

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Abraham
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Re: New Article: Stop Posting Unenforceable 30.06 Signs

Postby Abraham » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:31 pm

nightmare69,

Sound advice.

You're obviously one of the LEO's familiar with the fine points of TPC 30.06.

I take from your post, it's quite possible the greater percentage of LEO's may very well not be up on the fine points of TPC 30.06. Thus if one is found carrying where it's now legal, but posted erroneously, and if the officer is a reasonable person, you (I) could tactfully point out the new law and then a supervisor is called (and hopefully he/she is up to speed on TPC 30.06 and will verify the new law) you won't be arrested. I think that was a run on sentence...

Is that about the size of it?

Plus, what happens if the 30.06 signage is posted in a disputed area like the Houston Zoo?

Thanks!

I really appreciate your input.

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ScottDLS
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Re: New Article: Stop Posting Unenforceable 30.06 Signs

Postby ScottDLS » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:50 pm

Abraham wrote:nightmare69,

Sound advice.

You're obviously one of the LEO's familiar with the fine points of TPC 30.06.

I take from your post, it's quite possible the greater percentage of LEO's may very well not be up on the fine points of TPC 30.06. Thus if one is found carrying where it's now legal, but posted erroneously, and if the officer is a reasonable person, you (I) could tactfully point out the new law and then a supervisor is called (and hopefully he/she is up to speed on TPC 30.06 and will verify the new law) you won't be arrested. I think that was a run on sentence...

Is that about the size of it?

Plus, what happens if the 30.06 signage is posted in a disputed area like the Houston Zoo?

Thanks!

I really appreciate your input.


Why would it take 12 years for the LEO's to get up to speed? Like I said, CHL has been in place for 20 years and I assume we don't have to call a supervisor to determine that it's legal to carry with a CHL.

This was the whole point of SB273. Govt entities have been KNOWINGLY posting unenforceable 30.06 signs for 12 years. People are tired of begging for permission to do that which is legal.

In 2015 it is hard to understand how a peace officer can "reasonably believe" that an arrest is justified for passing an unenforceable 30.06 sign.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


Abraham
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Re: New Article: Stop Posting Unenforceable 30.06 Signs

Postby Abraham » Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:31 pm

ScottDLS,

You posted: "In 2015 it is hard to understand how a peace officer can "reasonably believe" that an arrest is justified for passing an unenforceable 30.06 sign."

I understand your point, but the unenforceable signs have been posted so long, most (I'm guessing of course) LEO's think these signs ARE enforceable or Nightmare69 wouldn't have posted what you see below.

But, here's reality: "You would beat the rap but not the ride. Honestly, if you comply and be respectful even if the LEO doesn't know the fine points of TPC 30.06, I doubt you would be arrested. I'm sure he would call his supervisor and get it cleared up. If you act like an OCT jerk to the officer, 95 times 1 in route to the county jail."

So, if you comply and be respectful, you might not take the ride for something the LEO's don't know/understand the finer points of TPC 30.06. That's just terrific... You "might not take the ride" There's something wrong with this picture. Plus, no getting aggravated. Be respectful, oh boy...And yes, LEO's aren't lawyers, but TPC 30.06 is one all Texas LEO's darn sure should be up on.

Yes, of course, it's always a good thing when a citizen and an LEO interact for mutual respect to be shown, but if I take the ride for something that is perfectly legal, I don't think I'm going to be meekly sitting in the patrol car with my hat in my hand (No, I won't be obnoxious, but I darn sure will be peeved) because the officer doesn't know he's enforcing a bogus law doesn't mean I have to act spiritless. As soon as I'm released, I'm going to take legal action. Would I be tilting at windmills to do so? I dunno, but I'd find out.

I still wonder what's to happen if a citizen is carrying at say the Houston Zoo, (which disputes 30.06 signage) is discovered to be carrying by LE. Is he going to take the ride?

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nightmare69
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Re: New Article: Stop Posting Unenforceable 30.06 Signs

Postby nightmare69 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:33 pm

I do not know what every officer would do in that particular situation. Just remember what happened to the guys from OCT at the capital. They were OCing black powder pistols and were arrested. The D.A. dropped all charges though because what they were doing was legal.

We spent approximately 10mins on TPC 30.06 in the academy. We went through the entire Texas Penal Code in 8 days. I told some people that going through the police academy is like trying to drink using a fire hose.

I know there is information in our legal update about open carry. I have yet to take it but plan to very soon.
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Abraham
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Re: New Article: Stop Posting Unenforceable 30.06 Signs

Postby Abraham » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:22 pm

nightmare69,

Thanks for your response.

I recall the old adage: Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

I'm thinking it goes both ways for citizens and LE...

As an LEO, given the paucity law coverage at the academy, you must have to keep up with the law with a lot of at home reading.

It must be a big problem for some officers who aren't dedicated to this type of continual education.

I guess that's when calling a supervisor is done - when a questionable law situation presents itself, but I wonder how many times this isn't done due to embarrassment on the part of the officer for not knowing the law...?


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