open carry bill filed

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Re: open carry bill filed

#91

Post by johnferg69 »

I know everyone is fighting for no changes to 30.06.But IF the NRA is helping to write and backs this bill but 30.06 gets rewritten is the TSRA going to fight against the NRA?

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Re: open carry bill filed

#92

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tico wrote:Just got off the phone with Bryan Smith and Noah Gilliam from Rep. Lavender's office thanking them for filing HB700, but also wanting to clarify the problems with modifying 30.06.

They say that the NRA asked them to make those changes to get the bill passed but they're aware of the problems and will be amending it. I asked for them to either create a separate sign (30.07?) that would apply to only prohibit open carry, or just allow the old gun busters sign to work for now. Having a separate sign for open carry would be an additional annoyance for anti-gun business owners to post up two signs, but also would allow for supporters for concealed carry only to still allow that method of carry without having to ban all forms of carry with a single sign.

When I asked for why they added "or unconcealed" all throughout the penal code instead of just striking 46.035a they said that had come from NRA as well after their experience during the last legislative session, but just needed to get *something* filed early in the process even though they intended to amend it as they went along.

As for the holster requirements, that was done to get support from law enforcement organizations, though none have publicly stated support for this bill as of now.

Please give them a call (512-463-0692) and your local representative too.
I have a hard time believing that the NRA had a hand in making these proposed changes to 30.06. I'm not saying that they didn't, but considering what Mr. Cotton (who is on the NRA BoD) has said about the subject, it just seems unlikely. Almost seems like the Rep (or his staffers) are using the NRA as a scapegoat ("It's not OUR fault, the NRA made us do it") for these changes.

Mr. Cotton, do you know if the NRA had any input into this? :headscratch
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Re: open carry bill filed

#93

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

johnferg69 wrote:I know everyone is fighting for no changes to 30.06.But IF the NRA is helping to write and backs this bill but 30.06 gets rewritten is the TSRA going to fight against the NRA?
The NRA absolutely did not write the bill and we did not approve any amendment of TPC §30.06. This bill will not pass if there is any change to TPC§30.06. I was given a copy very shortly before it was filed and had nothing to do with writing it.

Chas.

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Re: open carry bill filed

#94

Post by johnferg69 »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
johnferg69 wrote:I know everyone is fighting for no changes to 30.06.But IF the NRA is helping to write and backs this bill but 30.06 gets rewritten is the TSRA going to fight against the NRA?
The NRA absolutely did not write the bill and we did not approve any amendment of TPC §30.06. This bill will not pass if there is any change to TPC§30.06. I was given a copy very shortly before it was filed and had nothing to do with writing it.

Chas.
I don't believe anyone said the NRA wrote the bill. Rep.Lavender stated "We worked with the NRA, who has been very supportive, to come up with a bill that would not make a business bar concealed carry because they may have concerns about Open Carry"

With all due respect, Is there anyone who may have helped from the NRA besides you? I'd hate to think that Rep. Lavender is lying about getting help from them or that Bob Price is purposefully misquoting NRA-ILA spokeswoman Jacqueline Otto in this article;
http://texasgopvote.com/regions/texas/t ... rry-005062" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: open carry bill filed

#95

Post by G.A. Heath »

johnferg69 wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
johnferg69 wrote:I know everyone is fighting for no changes to 30.06.But IF the NRA is helping to write and backs this bill but 30.06 gets rewritten is the TSRA going to fight against the NRA?
The NRA absolutely did not write the bill and we did not approve any amendment of TPC §30.06. This bill will not pass if there is any change to TPC§30.06. I was given a copy very shortly before it was filed and had nothing to do with writing it.

Chas.
I don't believe anyone said the NRA wrote the bill. Rep.Lavender stated "We worked with the NRA, who has been very supportive, to come up with a bill that would not make a business bar concealed carry because they may have concerns about Open Carry"

With all due respect, Is there anyone who may have helped from the NRA besides you? I'd hate to think that Rep. Lavender is lying about getting help from them or that Bob Price is purposefully misquoting NRA-ILA spokeswoman Jacqueline Otto in this article;
http://texasgopvote.com/regions/texas/t ... rry-005062" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I find it suspect that the NRA would work on a bill w/o bringing in their state affiliate or w/o the knowledge of a member of their board of directors who is involved with state affiliate (and state politics). In this instance I suspect that someone believes the NRA helped on or supports the bill because they submitted it to the NRA and wasn't told "We don't like it" before it was filed.
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Re: open carry bill filed

#96

Post by BPNovum »

Ok... before anyone starts accusing me of deliberately misquoting someone, how about we gets some facts straight. If you have a direct question about what was said to me by the NRA let me know and I will address it.

This is the quote from Jacqueline Otto:
NRA spokeswoman Jacqueline Otto told me today, "The NRA will always support law-abiding citizens' ability to defend themselves and their loved ones."

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Re: open carry bill filed

#97

Post by dicion »

They shouldn't be asking the NRA about anything STATE related. They don't know the political landscape.

The NRA needs to keep to national level politics, let the state groups handle their own states.
Just like I wouldn't ask the TSRA to go to DC, the NRA needs to stay out of Austin.

I have much more faith in the TSRA when it comes to the Texas Legislature than I would the NRA.
Last edited by dicion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: open carry bill filed

#98

Post by G.A. Heath »

BPNovum wrote:Ok... before anyone starts accusing me of deliberately misquoting someone, how about we gets some facts straight. If you have a direct question about what was said to me by the NRA let me know and I will address it.

This is the quote from Jacqueline Otto:
NRA spokeswoman Jacqueline Otto told me today, "The NRA will always support law-abiding citizens' ability to defend themselves and their loved ones."

Bob Price
TexasGOPVote.com
Uhm ok, but I would like to point out that your post is confusing considering it's the first you have made here in 8 years. So you talked to the NRA about this bill for Lavendars office? If so who did you speak to and what exactly was said?
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Re: open carry bill filed

#99

Post by BPNovum »

Why does the fact that I haven't posted in many years make the posting confusing? Silly point.

To answer your question, I did not speak to the NRA on behalf of Rep. Lavender or anyone else. I saw the press release and was writing a story about the press release. I asked Jacqueline for a statement on this. Her response is quoted above. It was a generic statement of support of people being able to exercise their right to defend themselves and did not deal with the merit of specific details of the bill.

Now we have two posts from me in one day. Does that make it less confusing?
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Re: open carry bill filed

#100

Post by G.A. Heath »

BPNovum wrote:Why does the fact that I haven't posted in many years make the posting confusing? Silly point.

To answer your question, I did not speak to the NRA on behalf of Rep. Lavender or anyone else. I saw the press release and was writing a story about the press release. I asked Jacqueline for a statement on this. Her response is quoted above. It was a generic statement of support of people being able to exercise their right to defend themselves and did not deal with the merit of specific details of the bill.

Now we have two posts from me in one day. Does that make it less confusing?
Your post indicated that we were already misquoting you or had a habit of it, both of which are now cleared up. We haven't, we don't and the implication is that we would misquote the post you were making. I also found your article on TexasGOPvote which is dated Jan 25, 2013 and has the quote you posted above. I'll take you to task on something, Jacqueline Otto saying "The NRA will always support law-abiding citizens' ability to defend themselves and their loved ones." is a long way from, and I quote your article here, "the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) will be standing strongly beside this bill." By changing TPC 30.06 this bill may (In my opinion will) actually make it more difficult for folks to defend themselves because there will be more off limits locations. In addition to that this bill does nothing to advance peoples ability to defend themselves and their loved ones since it does nothing to make it possible for more people to legally go about their lives armed. All this bill would do is permit a slightly more comfortable method of carry while putting citizens at risk of being arrested for possibly wearing the wrong type of holster. I see two big issues with this bill, and they must be resolved before I can support it.
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Re: open carry bill filed

#101

Post by BPNovum »

I am not sure how changing the wording of the sign from concealed to concealed or not concealed creates any more or less locations where a CHL holder can or cannot carry. Personally, I wish we were going much further to "Constitutional Carry" like in Arizona and some other states. But incrementalism is working well for us on this. Each session our rights have been slightly restored compared to the previous session.

I don't personally oppose the level 2 holster restriction if that helps get law enforcement on board with open carry. We can always come back and change it again next session. The Democrats have been stealing our rights gradually over decades. It will take a while, and many incremental steps to get us back where we should be.

Hopefully we can work with Lavender and Paddie to improve the bill, but I have to believe, they have a pretty good understanding of what they can get passed and not passed. If Fletcher is chairman of homeland security we will have to work on him to get his support. Lavender thinks he can get him on board and that Todd Hunter is on board in calendars. The devil is in the details, but let's don't demand "all or nothing". We might just end up with nothing.
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Re: open carry bill filed

#102

Post by G.A. Heath »

BPNovum wrote:I am not sure how changing the wording of the sign from concealed to concealed or not concealed creates any more or less locations where a CHL holder can or cannot carry. Personally, I wish we were going much further to "Constitutional Carry" like in Arizona and some other states. But incrementalism is working well for us on this. Each session our rights have been slightly restored compared to the previous session.

I don't personally oppose the level 2 holster restriction if that helps get law enforcement on board with open carry. We can always come back and change it again next session. The Democrats have been stealing our rights gradually over decades. It will take a while, and many incremental steps to get us back where we should be.

Hopefully we can work with Lavender and Paddie to improve the bill, but I have to believe, they have a pretty good understanding of what they can get passed and not passed. If Fletcher is chairman of homeland security we will have to work on him to get his support. Lavender thinks he can get him on board and that Todd Hunter is on board in calendars. The devil is in the details, but let's don't demand "all or nothing". We might just end up with nothing.
First off, The requirement for the exact language got changed to "indicating the language" that is how more locations can easily be made off limits. Regarding the holster requirement. "Dual points of resistance" is confusing and vague. A better solution would be to out right say level 2 or something to the effect of "dual retention mechanisms" which would avoid folks thinking that "My holster provides dual points of resistance because it form fitted so the trigger guard and ejection port meet the requirement." Additionally why should we have to meet a requirement to satisfy those people who already legally open carry do not have to meet?
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Re: open carry bill filed

#103

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BPNovum wrote:I am not sure how changing the wording of the sign from concealed to concealed or not concealed creates any more or less locations where a CHL holder can or cannot carry.
Very simple. Right now business owners have no clue that a CC person is armed in their store. So most of them don't go looking for what they need to do legally to keep them out. Out of sight out of mind.
Now if the same business owner (who knows nothing about guns) sees people start walking into his store with guns on their hip and other customers complain he is going to find out what he needs to do to stop it. If stopping OC requires a 30.06 sign, then the store that I had no problem OCing in before is now off limits.
If this Bill in its final form alters 30.06 (ties OC to 30.06) many members of this forum and the CHL community will do everything we can to defeat it.
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Re: open carry bill filed

#104

Post by BPNovum »

jmra wrote:
BPNovum wrote:I am not sure how changing the wording of the sign from concealed to concealed or not concealed creates any more or less locations where a CHL holder can or cannot carry.
Very simple. Right now business owners have no clue that a CC person is armed in their store. So most of them don't go looking for what they need to do legally to keep them out. Out of sight out of mind.
Now if the same business owner (who knows nothing about guns) sees people start walking into his store with guns on their hip and other customers complain he is going to find out what he needs to do to stop it. If stopping OC requires a 30.06 sign, then the store that I had no problem OCing in before is now off limits.
If this Bill in its final form alters 30.06 (ties OC to 30.06) many members of this forum and the CHL community will do everything we can to defeat it.
Valid point, but I don't know that this scenario has played out in other open carry states. But I understand what you are saying.

As for dual point of resistance, I agree that should be more specific and using an industry standard like "Level 2" would be better. What has Lavender said about that? When I talked to his staff they specifically used the term Level 2. I didn't bring it up when I spoke with him directly.
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Re: open carry bill filed

#105

Post by Wes »

jmra wrote:
BPNovum wrote:I am not sure how changing the wording of the sign from concealed to concealed or not concealed creates any more or less locations where a CHL holder can or cannot carry.
Very simple. Right now business owners have no clue that a CC person is armed in their store. So most of them don't go looking for what they need to do legally to keep them out. Out of sight out of mind.
Now if the same business owner (who knows nothing about guns) sees people start walking into his store with guns on their hip and other customers complain he is going to find out what he needs to do to stop it. If stopping OC requires a 30.06 sign, then the store that I had no problem OCing in before is now off limits.
If this Bill in its final form alters 30.06 (ties OC to 30.06) many members of this forum and the CHL community will do everything we can to defeat it.
Exactly....when they look up how to keep out OCers I want them to be shown something, anything, other than a 30.06 sign
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