Running Serial Numbers of weapons of CHL holders.

[anygunanywhere]

If a LEO stops another LEO for a traffic infraction do they disarm the LEO and run his weapon serial numbers or is this only done to CHL holders?

Anygunanywhere

[HK_USP_45]

The LEO's I have stopped in the past had to identify themselves to know that they were LEO. If they had proper ID and a badge, that was the end of it. I don't know of a statute that would allow you to disarm an LEO unless they were involved in some major crime such as DWI, murder, etc. Certainly not for a traffic violation. Anyone else I stopped that was not a CHL and had a weapon, I took the weapon and generally arrested them. The reasons to allow someone to have a weapon in their vehicle at that time were a defense to prosecution, not an immunity to arrest. Common sense usually prevailed but I did have an occasional lapse. I retired before this new provision to allow almost anyone to have a weapon concealed in their vehicle. I never disarmed a CHL that I remember. A good bit of law enforcement requires common sense and good communication.

[anygunanywhere]

I just threw the question out there for consideration. The law allows an LEO to disarm a CHL for safety reasons which is really a broad brush. If citizen CHL can be disarmed for "safety" then so should LEO. Safety is the primary focus, right?

Anygunanywhere

[HK_USP_45]

I would say that if the LEO is uncomfortable with anyone they have official contact with being armed, they should disarm the person. That will lessen the possiblity of someone doing something stupid and lessen the tension. Now, I understand your implied comment. Yes, it is partly professional courtesy. And I would be more at ease with an armed LEO than anyone else, but that is dangerous also. Would it be more equal to treat all the same? Yes. Is it practical? Not always. But from a legal standpoint, disarming the CHL is allowed by law. Disarming the LEO is allowed in certain circumstances. But if you expect LEO's to treat the rest of the world like they do fellow LEO's, it ain't going to happen. Safety should be the primary focus but then there is reality, which gets you injured or killed sometimes.

[TexasCajun]

I have no doubt that the serial number running is just a way for disproving LEO/
Agencies to harass law-abiding gun owners. And even though it's technically a violation of your rights, the roadside is no place to litigate your case. If it were to happen to me, I'd comply during the incident then bring up my objections with the supervisor and/or agency head.

[JKTex]

The question is why are they checking CHL's for stolen guns? I wonder how many they have found.

I was told by an LEO once that he believes by running the gun through the system he is providing a service for the CHL holder who might have unintentionally purchased a stolen gun.

"I'm from the Government, I'm here to help you."

[JALLEN]

You have a laptop in your car. Why don't I run the serial number on that? Might be stolen. You have a Rolex watch on. Why not run the serial number on that? Why not ask to see all the money in your wallet to make sure none of it is counterfeit? Maybe run the serial number of your car radio. Ask to see the receipt for all the stuff you have in those Target bags in the back seat. Run all your credit cards.

Point is why would I single out one object in your possession over all others that have the same chance of being illegal in some respect or other? If it is doing you a favor to make sure your gun is not stolen, why not go all the way and run everything in your possession with a number in the name of customer service?

What happens to probable cause? My Rolex in plain view carries no suspicious circumstance to make anyone think it is stolen, or any other object, otherwise lawful, you might observe. Won't you have a hard time using that as evidence? "I saw this Rolex in plain view, on the wrist of this dignified, impeccably groomed and well-dressed older gentleman driving a late model Lexus. I wondered if it was stolen, and sure enough it was!"

I'm asking here since you seem to have a great deal of experience, and they never caught any of my clients.

[texanjoker]

You have a laptop in your car. Why don't I run the serial number on that? Might be stolen. You have a Rolex watch on. Why not run the serial number on that? Why not ask to see all the money in your wallet to make sure none of it is counterfeit? Maybe run the serial number of your car radio. Ask to see the receipt for all the stuff you have in those Target bags in the back seat. Run all your credit cards.

Point is why would I single out one object in your possession over all others that have the same chance of being illegal in some respect or other? If it is doing you a favor to make sure your gun is not stolen, why not go all the way and run everything in your possession with a number in the name of customer service?

What happens to probable cause? My Rolex in plain view carries no suspicious circumstance to make anyone think it is stolen, or any other object, otherwise lawful, you might observe. Won't you have a hard time using that as evidence? "I saw this Rolex in plain view, on the wrist of this dignified, impeccably groomed and well-dressed older gentleman driving a late model Lexus. I wondered if it was stolen, and sure enough it was!"

I'm asking here since you seem to have a great deal of experience, and they never caught any of my clients.

I'm going to run the rolex that is on the arm of the punk kid that is driving the stolen car....

[HK_USP_45]

Mr. Allen, my diatribe was totally tongue-n-cheek. You really hit the nail on the head. PC is the missing ingredient. My opinion, there is no more PC to run the serial number on a weapon legally in your possession and with no direct involvement in the original reason for detention than it would be to check everything in your possession. If you were stopped for shooting out the car window, rudely displaying a weapon, murder, that is one thing. Now, keep in mind, I have never been infected by a doctorate in jurisprudence so I try to operate under the application of common sense. Once you enter a court room, all bets are off. And I never gave anyone a citation. They had to earn it the old fashion way.

[JALLEN]

Mr. Allen, my diatribe was totally tongue-n-cheek. You really hit the nail on the head. PC is the missing ingredient. My opinion, there is no more PC to run the serial number on a weapon legally in your possession and with no direct involvement in the original reason for detention than it would be to check everything in your possession. If you were stopped for shooting out the car window, rudely displaying a weapon, murder, that is one thing. Now, keep in mind, I have never been infected by a doctorate in jurisprudence so I try to operate under the application of common sense. Once you enter a court room, all bets are off. And I never gave anyone a citation. They had to earn it the old fashion way.

Wheeewww! I'm glad that all those months I sat in classrooms being brainwashed in the study of law, and the dimming of my memory over all these years, the decades of exposure to night air, strong drink and wild women, hasn't been totally wasted. It's a relief!

[HK_USP_45]

Yes sir. That's good news.

[dac1842]

Many of you have posted about the PC needed to run the serial numbers on a gun. Now, admittedly I have been out of Law Enforcement for a long time. But when I was in, the PC was needed for the stop. After that we used what was referred to as the arms reach doctrine, meaning I could, without a warrant search you or anything within arms reach of you in the interest of officer safety. Keep in mind this as before CHL.
Now, the CHL law gives the officer the authority to disarm you, He can at that point run the weapon without further issues, because in effect he has consent.
As I have stated before, the vast majority of officers fully support CHL. Their decision to disarm is based on many factors. For some it is just a practice, they are the 5% of officers, that given the chance would arrest their own mothers. For the remaining 95% it is based on your attitude, time and place of stop, other calls that have or are taking place in the same general area, reason for your stop and officer discretion.

Don't be offended if asked to disarm, the officer has to ensure that he goes home to his family at the end of tour of duty. He does not know you. Oh and one more piece of friendly advice. don't be flashing that darn CHL Badge on a traffic stop. I know lots of officers that are going to a) automatically write the ticket, b) automatically disarm you, and c) laugh at you..

[jmra]

Oh and one more piece of friendly advice. don't be flashing that darn CHL Badge on a traffic stop. I know lots of officers that are going to a) automatically write the ticket, b) automatically disarm you, and c) laugh at you..

You are aware that when armed and asked for ID we are required by law to "flash that darn CHL", right? Sounds like "a lot of the officers you know" are uninformed jerks.
My experience with officers has obviously been very different than yours.

[lrpettit]

Oh and one more piece of friendly advice. don't be flashing that darn CHL Badge on a traffic stop. I know lots of officers that are going to a) automatically write the ticket, b) automatically disarm you, and c) laugh at you..

You are aware that when armed and asked for ID we are required by law to "flash that darn CHL", right? Sounds like "a lot of the officers you know" are uninformed jerks.
My experience with officers has obviously been very different than yours.

I think he probably meant the "badge" and not the CHL license

[texanjoker]

Oh and one more piece of friendly advice. don't be flashing that darn CHL Badge on a traffic stop. I know lots of officers that are going to a) automatically write the ticket, b) automatically disarm you, and c) laugh at you..

You are aware that when armed and asked for ID we are required by law to "flash that darn CHL", right? Sounds like "a lot of the officers you know" are uninformed jerks.
My experience with officers has obviously been very different than yours.

I think he probably meant the "badge" and not the CHL license

first person that I deal with that flashes a CHL badge (shiny metal fishing lure) had better not do so in a way to impersonate an officer. So far it has only been security guards flashing security guard badges impersonating officers that I have had to deal with.