srothstein wrote:AEA wrote:But what Law gives them the AUTHORITY to run serial numbers of CHL holder's guns?
The Fourth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, as interpreted by the Supreme Court of the United States.
Well, more specifically, our principals of anything not forbidden is legal. The 4th amendment lists what is prohibited. In this case, the SCOTUS has ruled that it is reasonable for an officer to search or seize something that is in plain view. Plain view is defined as what an officer can see when he is in a position or place he has a legal right to be in. So, once an officer has legally disarmed a person for his safety, he can see the serial number (most of the time) and can therefore legally run it.
So, if the officer disarms the person for his safety, I am confident the courts would say running the serial number is legal. What would not be legal would be to disarm the person just for the purpose of running the serial number. So far, the reports are that the troopers are disarming the person for safety reasons not just for running the serial.
I do not agree with the principles of running the license, just reporting that I think it is legal in most cases.Abraham wrote:Do they also run VIN numbers to be certain the vehicle being driven by the CHL holder isn't stolen?
Actually, yes. They run the license plate on every car they stop, which checks for it being stolen and gets the registration return. The registration return tells them the year, make, VIN, and style of car, as well as the owner's name. If something doesn't match up, the officer will check further. If the car is not reported stolen and the make and year match the registration, the officer probably would not check further.
On a side note, not checking further might be a mistake. I had one case where I stopped someone for a violation and found he had warrants. The car did not come back as stolen. The driver was going to jail for the warrant so I had to impound the car. I filled out the tow slip from the computer in my car. This included the VIN. For some reason, I looked at the car's VIN as I was finishing up the tow slip and found it did not match the one I had written down. So, running the VIN, I found the car had been stolen in Louisiana two years earlier. The driver admitted he had stolen the same year, make, and model of car that he owned because his was trashed and this way he could drive without getting caught. It had worked for two years until he messed up on something else and got warrants.
I think you're missing the point here, or at least I am seeing it differently. No one is denying a police officer's right to run plates, dl's or to seize anything in plain view. If this is true and DPS is running all weapons of CHLs during the traffic stop that is the problem. They wouldn't have that authority under MPA, they don't have it under the CHL statues. Perhaps a possible solution might be to remove the disarming ability during a traffic stop unless the operator is outside the vehicle with his weapon on him. Otherwise, if the weapon is in the vehicle, and the operator is outside, the officer has no right to enter, search or compel you to reveal it.
Generally, most officers handle stops with chl’ers just like any other stop. However, I would like to see a few protections for us put into the law that protects us from the police and abuse of authority.