Volunteer School Defense Forces?

This sub-forum will open for posting on Sept. 1, 2012.

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby mojo84 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:03 pm

Crossfire wrote:Absolutely. And already signed up.

You should too! http://nraschoolshield.com/



:iagree: I signed up within a few minutes of seeing the NRA speech.
"The laws which forbid men to bear arms … only disarm those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes,” Cesare Beccaria, an Italian scholar, wrote in his 1764 treatise on the subject. “These laws make the victims of attack worse off and improve the position of the assailant.”
User avatar
mojo84
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2702
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Boerne, TX (Kendall County)

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby baldeagle » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:08 pm

I signed up, but I will not participate in any program that doesn't allow me to carry my own weapon (or provides me with a weapon and ammo.) I'm more than willing to protect children, but I won't volunteer for a suicide mission.
The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison
NRA Life Member Texas Firearms Coalition member
User avatar
baldeagle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4133
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:26 pm
Location: Richardson, TX

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby srothstein » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:12 pm

Thanks for the points JP171. I was aware of the CE part because I am still trying to figure out where I am going to get time for 40 hours before August this year. But, I had not thought of the cost of insurance for the unpaid volunteers. As for the work part, I think that could be handled as part of the agreement with the volunteer. No one can make a volunteer do things he does not want to do so this is part of the program set-up.

I think almost all of the CHLs will meet the qualifications to be an LEO. I thought that some might not make the physical part, but that is really just a doctor's opinion on things. From my experience, most doctors will agree if you can do the job you explain you intend to do.

So, it may not be as easy as I think, but none of this seems to rule out the plan. There may be more details to work out in it, but it still looks workable. I will go down and talk with my school board in Luling and see what they think. Our Constable will probably agree to carry the commissions since he already ahs a couple reserves.

I think the problem of allowing a CHL to volunteer is in changing the law on working security. We could also work out the details on that, but it does require a legal change since a volunteer CHL cannot be there to work security (as we have already discussed for church security plans). That would be my fall back for the legislative session.
Steve Rothstein
srothstein
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3466
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Luling, TX

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby mojo84 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:22 pm

srothstein wrote:Think the problem of allowing a CHL to volunteer is in changing the law on working security. We could also work out the details on that, but it does require a legal change since a volunteer CHL cannot be there to work security (as we have already discussed for church security plans). That would be my fall back for the legislative session.


I had this same thought.
"The laws which forbid men to bear arms … only disarm those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes,” Cesare Beccaria, an Italian scholar, wrote in his 1764 treatise on the subject. “These laws make the victims of attack worse off and improve the position of the assailant.”
User avatar
mojo84
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2702
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Boerne, TX (Kendall County)

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby AEA » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:34 pm

Many people do not realize.....

Many "Positions" of "Security" involve the "Security" Person doing other duties (which interferes with what they are there for in the first place). Such as Janitorial duties, grounds keeping, etc......

Employers don't like to see people sitting/walking around doing "nothing" (Real Security actually in action, working).

Kinda hard to observe/identify/engage a threat when you are actually unplugging the toilet. :banghead:
Alan - ANYTHING I write is MY OPINION only.
Certified Curmudgeon - But, my German Shepherd loves me!
NRA-Life, USN '65-'69 & '73-'79: RM1
1911's RULE!
User avatar
AEA
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5112
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: North Texas

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby JALLEN » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:51 pm

The same result could be accomplished merely by repealing the gun free zone nonsense, and allowing CHLs to be recognized nationwide, like drivers licenses.

If a formal program were essential, a training course could be provided. I'm sure this would mean background checks, all the rage these days, although perhaps superfluous for most CHLs.

I'd not like to add LEO status though.
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.
User avatar
JALLEN
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1744
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: Comal County

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby chasfm11 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:52 pm

AEA wrote:Many people do not realize.....

Many "Positions" of "Security" involve the "Security" Person doing other duties (which interferes with what they are there for in the first place). Such as Janitorial duties, grounds keeping, etc......

Employers don't like to see people sitting/walking around doing "nothing" (Real Security actually in action, working).

Kinda hard to observe/identify/engage a threat when you are actually unplugging the toilet. :banghead:



But in the case of a unpaid volunteer, I'm not sure all of this applies. As I see it, volunteering would mean that I would be in the building for a specific period of time and I would be carrying a firearm (I'm another who has no interest in and sees no value in non-lethal alternatives.). I'm there to be a last line of defense, not the chief security officer. I happen to be a trained and certified teacher and could be helping in classrooms rather than just sitting on my backside somewhere.

My untrained opinion is that you don't want your last line of defense in the same spot every day where he could be easily picked off by someone who had done some advanced research. If you want a true security guard, you hire one. I think some schools need those and probably more than one. But there are also a lot of smaller schools like Sandy Hook where a single person with a gun might be able to stop the carnage a lot faster that those without a lethal alternative. Those are the places where a volunteer force makes sense, at least to me.

BTW, I received my confirmation back from the School Shield signup. We'll see where it goes from here. Being retired, I have a lot more flexibility than many.
6/23-8/13/10 -51 days to plastic
Dun Spiro Spero
chasfm11
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2687
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:01 pm
Location: Northern DFW

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby G26ster » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:32 am

What is your mission? Are you there only if a BG with a gun shows up and you are alerted, or observe them? Are you there for other security issues? What are the rules of engagement. When can you fire, when can you not? What if you observe a student or other person who appears to be concealing something.? Do you confront them? Detain them? Report them (and to who?). What about other illegal activity you might observe? I think the term "school security" is off base. IOW, if you are not a sworn LEO or an otherwise certified security person, you would be out of your league, both professionally and legally IMO.

Now if you're school personnel, who happens to have a CHL and is authorized to carry it in your school, and the sole reason is to protect others and yourself, that is another story entirely, because you simply have to adhere to the penal code and use of force or deadly force statutes. However, I'd darn sure want some kind of a "hold harmless" agreement to ensure I would have the complete backing of the school authorities. Even then, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable. I wouldn't want to end up with little round red marks all over my body where the school authorities, after a defensive shoot where innocents might be injured, were touching me with 10 foot poles. Just MHO.
User avatar
G26ster
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:28 pm
Location: DFW

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby AEA » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:44 am

:iagree: :tiphat:
Unfortunately, Defense and Security are often bunched in the same category. :banghead:

Bureaucrats don't concern themselves with what actions are taken by what persons. They are only interested in the bottom line and the "feel good" approach.
Alan - ANYTHING I write is MY OPINION only.
Certified Curmudgeon - But, my German Shepherd loves me!
NRA-Life, USN '65-'69 & '73-'79: RM1
1911's RULE!
User avatar
AEA
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5112
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: North Texas

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby jmra » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:30 am

Having already received feedback from some Superintendents, I can tell you that armed volunteers (non-LEO) will never be allowed in schools.

It will be a big enough battle getting school boards to approve employee carry in schools (I don't see that happening either). The best I believe we can hope for is additional LEO and perhaps administrators with CHLs being allowed to carry.

It all comes down to liability. The lawyers and bean counters believe there is a greater likelihood of one of our guns becoming an issue on their campus than a bad guys.

For those who are thinking of going through the Academy to get a commission in order to be a legally armed volunteer...as someone else stated, plan on spending $2500 - $3500 and approximately 720 hours of training. You must pass all written and physical aspects of the program. Think boot camp and college rolled into one.

Here's some info from Cedar Valley College Police Academy.
Full time day classes are 8 hours a day 5 days a week for 5 months.
Night classes are 4 hours a night 5 nights a week for 8 months.


Full-time day course(s), 7:45 a.m. - 5:00 p.m., MTWRF:
Class #63 - Course Number: Spring 2012 CJLE1006-34163
Classes run January 23, 2012 - June 22, 2012
Class #65 - Course Number: Summer One 2012 CLJE 1066-34165
Classes run August 13, 2012 - December 14, 2012

Part-time evening course(s), 6:30 p.m. - 10:30 p.m., MTWRF:
Class #64 - Course Number: Spring 2012 CJLE1006-34164
Classes run March 19, 2012 - November 28, 2012
Class #66 - Course Number: Fall 2012 CLJE1006-34166
Classes run September 10, 2012 - May 25, 2013

Part-time day course(s), 7:45 a.m. - 12:00 noon, MTWRF
Class #62 - Course Number: Spring 2012 CJLE1006-34162
Classes run January 23, 2012 - October 12, 2012

For more information on our upcoming classes, call the Cedar Valley College law Enforcement Academy at (972) 860-8289, or email us at ghunter@dcccd.edu, or bnorton@dcccd.edu.

Basic Peace Officer Course Curriculum

The Cedar Valley College Law Enforcement Academy Basic Peace Officer course shall be in accordance with Commission regulations. It shall consist of 720 hours and shall include, but not be limited to, the subjects set forth below:

1. Introduction and Orientation - 8 hours
Fitness and Wellness, and Stress Management - 14 hours
Professional Policing - 10 hours
Professionalism and Ethics - 8 hours
U.S. & Texas Constitutions, Bill of Rights, and Criminal Justice System - 12 hours
Multiculturalism and Human Relations - 12 hours
Code of Criminal Procedure - 16 hours
Arrest, Search, and Seizure - 24 hours
Penal Code - 40 hours
Traffic - 68 hours
Intoxicated Driver and SFST - 24 hours
Civil Process - 8 hours
Alcoholic Beverage Code - 4 hours
Health and Safety Code – Controlled Substances Act - 8 hours
Family Code – Juvenile Issues - 10 hours
Written Communications - 16 hours
Spanish - 16 hours
Force Options - 24 hours
Mechanics of Arrest - 40 hours
Firearms - 48 hours
Emergency Medical Assistance - 16 hours
Emergency Communications - 12 hours
Professional Police Driving - 32 hours
Communication and Problem Solving - 16 hours
Patrol/Consular Notification - 48 hours
Victims of Crime - 10 hours
Family Violence and Related Assaultive Offenses - 20 hours
Crisis Intervention Training (CIT) and Mental Health Code - 24 hours
Hazardous Materials Awareness - 6 hours
Criminal Investigation - 44 hours
Including: Introduction, General, Protection of and Crime Scene Search, Interviewing Techniques, Booking Procedures, Courtroom Demeanor and Testimony, Case Management
Patrol Practicals - 16 hours
How to Market Yourself - 8 hours
Review for TCLEOSE State Exam - 40 hours
Physical Training - TBA
Total: 720 Hours

Of course there is another way to do this. If you have your CHL - lock and load, grab a lawn chair and sit in front of the school of your choice. Make sure you have your cell phone to report anything that doesn't look right. Just a thought...
Last edited by jmra on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
User avatar
jmra
Senior Member
 
Posts: 8272
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:51 am
Location: Ellis County

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby PUCKER » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:37 am

Crossfire wrote:Absolutely. And already signed up.

You should too! http://nraschoolshield.com/


Just did, thank you for the link! :tiphat:
User avatar
PUCKER
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1248
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:05 pm
Location: Grapevine, TX

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby Beiruty » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:46 am

Crossfire wrote:
urnoodle wrote:I would most definitely volunteer as long as someone qualified could point me in the right direction for the appropriate training.

What did you not understand about this??? http://nraschoolshield.com/

Consider yourself pointed.



Done. sent my email and info.
Beiruty,
United we stand, dispersed we falter.
Loaded, NOT locked, cause my carry has none!
2014: NRA Endowment member
User avatar
Beiruty
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5818
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: DFW, Texas

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby Charger » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:58 am

I wouldnt say "it'll never happen", especially since its already happening in some places. I dont get the concern, and never have. People are allowed to carry a gun in the mall. They're allowed to carry a gun in a restaurant. What makes a school any different? If it were me I'd take each and every school board out of the decision making equation. Too many chefs spoil the soup and all. If its a public school then by state law:
a) CHLs are allowed to carry in them
b) the PTO is allowed to generate funds from parents and then install metal boxes containing a loaded weapon (preferably an ar type) and hand the combination to parents that have CHLs and have contributed, as well as staff. Geez, we allow those "in case of emergency break glass" boxes with axes. I think a shooter is more of an emergency. Big firepower without having to have anyone walking around with it sounds like a good idea to me.
c) the PTO is allowed to schedule volunteers who'se only purpose being at the school would be to be an armed CHL on site. I mean come on, the PTO at my girl's school already has anywhere from two to five of them at the school at any given time...they're just not armed.
Charger
Junior Member
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:26 pm
Location: Magnolia Texas

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby RoyGBiv » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:20 am

LEOSA would be a mighty tempting incentive to become a fully certified Peace Officer.
Although the time and cost would be an obstacle, more so the time.
I'm sure the costs could be partially offset by setting up a charitable fund for this specific purpose. Just a question of working out the details.
Of course the ISD expectations, duties and responsibilities would need to be clear before starting.

It would be worth every bit of $2,500 to be able to carry in any jurisdiction.
I'd be sure to stop by and wave howdy to Mayor Bloomberg. "rlol"
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
Image
Nothing tempers idealism quite like the cold bath of reality.... SQLGeek
User avatar
RoyGBiv
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:41 am
Location: Fort Worth

Re: Volunteer School Defense Forces?

Postby MeMelYup » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:04 am

Charger wrote:I wouldnt say "it'll never happen", especially since its already happening in some places. I dont get the concern, and never have. People are allowed to carry a gun in the mall. They're allowed to carry a gun in a restaurant. What makes a school any different? If it were me I'd take each and every school board out of the decision making equation. Too many chefs spoil the soup and all. If its a public school then by state law:
a) CHLs are allowed to carry in them
b) the PTO is allowed to generate funds from parents and then install metal boxes containing a loaded weapon (preferably an ar type) and hand the combination to parents that have CHLs and have contributed, as well as staff. Geez, we allow those "in case of emergency break glass" boxes with axes. I think a shooter is more of an emergency. Big firepower without having to have anyone walking around with it sounds like a good idea to me.
c) the PTO is allowed to schedule volunteers who'se only purpose being at the school would be to be an armed CHL on site. I mean come on, the PTO at my girl's school already has anywhere from two to five of them at the school at any given time...they're just not armed.

Why are they having such a hard time passing CHL carry on college campuses here in Texas?
MeMelYup
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:21 pm

PreviousNext

Return to 2013 Texas Legislative Session

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest