UPDATE: 1/1/13

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UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:05 pm

Added HB333 (Guillen) requiring pre-registration notice by hotels wishing to prohibit firearms on hotel property. Well-intended bill to keep gun owners from being surprised, but it makes it easy to use TPC §30.06 to prohibit CHL from entering property with a handgun.
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby Waco1959 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:46 pm

OK, I've been out of the hotel business for about 20 years but IIRC a hotel room is basically counted as a temporary habitation and for most legal purposes would be just like your home. As such, wouldn't the law allowing you to carry concealed from your home to your vehicle via a direct route still apply? I can see that they could ban them from the public areas such as pools, restaurants, or lobby/breakfast areas as these are common areas and stopping for breakfast or a swim would hardly be a direct route. I do like the idea behind the bill but he should change it to require ALL banned activity be included in the pre-reg notice.

Guests with guns were never considered a problem in the hotels where I worked unless they discharged them (1 in 10 yrs and by a LEO) or left them behind (about one a month at one property).
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby DevilDawg » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:12 pm

I for one would rather know in advance if my business is not desired by a certain Chain/Brand. If they choose to make use of TPC30.06 to prevent me from being on the property, so much the better Before I make a non-refundable deposit.

Certain chains will do this wholesale to make it seem safer for sheep. Others will be passed word of mouth and through sights similar to this as Gun Friendly and see profits accordingly. I find it both helpful and shameful that we have come to this.
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby Douva » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:04 pm

Would posting 30.06 prohibit a license holder from keeping a firearm in his or her hotel room?

The exceptions to 46.02 (Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon) include being:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

Would a hotel room count as "premises under the person's control"? Would a CHL holder who keeps a gun in his or her room and who carries the gun between the room and his or her vehicle be carrying "under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code," and, therefore, subject to PC 30.06, or would he/she be carrying under the same authority as anyone else?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the law, but I have to agree with Charles that this bill could cause more problems than it would solve.

EDITED TO ADD: I'm not saying I wouldn't be seriously annoyed if I went to check into a hotel and saw the front door posted 30.06, but I think it's important to establish whether that 30.06 sign actually prohibits a patron from having a gun in his/her hotel room or simply prohibits carrying in the hotel's lobby, restaurants, shops, etc.
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:46 pm

While it can be argued that one's hotel room is under one's control, i.e. temporary abode, if TPC §30.06 language is included in the registration agreement, or if any "no guns" statement is made when registering by phone, then the CHL would violate TPC §30.06 simply by entering the property or building with a gun. It's not your room until you check in and a CHL would have already violated TPC §30.06.

If you were to make your reservations, check in without a gun, then go to your car and enter with a gun, at the very minimum, you would have violated the lease contract. You may quite possibly have violated TPC §30.06, but that's not clear. I suspect no court, jury or appellate court would look too favorably on the defendant who reserved a room knowing of the firearm prohibition then entered with a gun anyway.

This is a well-intended bill that can result in unintended consequences.

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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby MasterOfNone » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:31 pm

Waco1959 wrote:OK, I've been out of the hotel business for about 20 years but IIRC a hotel room is basically counted as a temporary habitation and for most legal purposes would be just like your home. As such, wouldn't the law allowing you to carry concealed from your home to your vehicle via a direct route still apply? I can see that they could ban them from the public areas such as pools, restaurants, or lobby/breakfast areas as these are common areas and stopping for breakfast or a swim would hardly be a direct route. I do like the idea behind the bill but he should change it to require ALL banned activity be included in the pre-reg notice.

Guests with guns were never considered a problem in the hotels where I worked unless they discharged them (1 in 10 yrs and by a LEO) or left them behind (about one a month at one property).

:iagree: If this is made generic to require that ALL restrictions, not just gun-related restrictions, must be disclosed pre-registration, it would achieve the same purpose without calling attention specifically to guns.
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby Douva » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:42 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:While it can be argued that one's hotel room is under one's control, i.e. temporary abode, if TPC §30.06 language is included in the registration agreement, or if any "no guns" statement is made when registering by phone, then the CHL would violate TPC §30.06 simply by entering the property or building with a gun. It's not your room until you check in and a CHL would have already violated TPC §30.06.

If you were to make your reservations, check in without a gun, then go to your car and enter with a gun, at the very minimum, you would have violated the lease contract. You may quite possibly have violated TPC §30.06, but that's not clear. I suspect no court, jury or appellate court would look too favorably on the defendant who reserved a room knowing of the firearm prohibition then entered with a gun anyway.

This is a well-intended bill that can result in unintended consequences.

Chas.


Good point. I didn't think about it from a breech-of-contract standpoint.
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby cyphur » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:07 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Added HB333 (Guillen) requiring pre-registration notice by hotels wishing to prohibit firearms on hotel property. Well-intended bill to keep gun owners from being surprised, but it makes it easy to use TPC §30.06 to prohibit CHL from entering property with a handgun.


Instead of a bill making it easier for businesses to enact further prohibitions on our RKBA we should instead be backing bills to further reduce business' ability to do so.

Regardless of the original intent of the filer, this bill if passed into law will turn into a backdoor method to prevent CHL holders from exercising their rights on the road. No good can come from this bill in my opinion.
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby Abraham » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:13 am

Is there a stand alone list of anti-guns hotels/motels?

If so, I'd appreciate a link.

Thanks!
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby Purplehood » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:13 am

cyphur wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Added HB333 (Guillen) requiring pre-registration notice by hotels wishing to prohibit firearms on hotel property. Well-intended bill to keep gun owners from being surprised, but it makes it easy to use TPC §30.06 to prohibit CHL from entering property with a handgun.


Instead of a bill making it easier for businesses to enact further prohibitions on our RKBA we should instead be backing bills to further reduce business' ability to do so.

Regardless of the original intent of the filer, this bill if passed into law will turn into a backdoor method to prevent CHL holders from exercising their rights on the road. No good can come from this bill in my opinion.


I firmly agree with the bill as it protects the CHL and the private-property owner (the Hotel). I also agree with the desire for the bill to be amended to reflect full-disclosure (Gun-related and otherwise) by the proprietor.
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby TexasCajun » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:12 pm

Abraham wrote:Is there a stand alone list of anti-guns hotels/motels?

If so, I'd appreciate a link.

Thanks!


http://texas3006.com/view.php
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby Abraham » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:37 pm

TexasCajun,

Thanks.

When a good friend of mine retires this coming summer, I'll ask her to contact the good folks at Texas 30.06 com.

She's a senior systems analyst and I'll ask her if she can help organize the various categories. Assuming they accept her help and assuming she'll volunteer. I'm an optimist...

I nearly went blind in my search for hotel/motel 30.06 locations...

No, I shouldn't complain, the volunteers are doing their best, but finding what one is specifically looking is (at least for me) tough.
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby TexasCajun » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:42 pm

I thought that the link I was providing was the search results that I ran. I went to the site, selected Tavel and 30.06 options for my search. Looks like a lot of the higher-end hotels in big cities are 30.06'd. Not sure if that helps, but it's what I've found.
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby Abraham » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:56 pm

TexasCajun,

Once again, thank you.

My internet navigation skills are meager.

If I had an internet boat I wouldn't be able to get out of the harbor...
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Re: UPDATE: 1/1/13

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:10 pm

HB333 is going to be amended in committee to remove the language that could create unintended consequences. With these changes, the bill is going to be fine.

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