This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby gigag04 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:53 pm

Borrowed:


I listened again to the President's speech from last night. It was an eloquent plea for all of us to come together as a country and to work for the good of all Americans. It was well written, beautifully delivered, and punctuated with pathos. Unfortunately it came after more than a year of the following comments by the President and his surrogates about Republicans in general and Mitt Romney in
particular. The Presidents words are in quotation marks…..
Racist
“They want dirty water and dirty air.”
Racist
Tax Cheat
Racist
Vampire
Racist
Vulture
“Bullsh------”
Murderer
Racist
Felon
Hate Monger
“They practice the politics of hate.”
“Punish you enemies (Republicans) and reward your friends.”
Racist
Homophobe
Racist
Liar
Racist
Sexist
Racist
Cheaters
Outsourcers
Racist
Granny Killers
“They want the elderly to scrounge for their next meal.”
“Frauds”
Steal the election
They want people who get sick and to die.
He hates dogs.
“Deceiver”
“They lack character”
“Vote for revenge.”
Racist
These are just a few of the notes I made during the election. You don’t run that kind of campaign and just expect everything will be forgiven and forgotten. The President will reach out and encourage us all to come together because he has no other choice. He doesn’t have the mandate he had in 2008. Whether the outreach is real or not remains to be seen. If it is real I urge Republicans to work with him. Trust but verify. But if it is a sham as it was in his first 4 years where he arrogantly dismissed any input from Republicans, because he had an overwhelming majority in the House and the Senate for two years, then I urge Republicans to stand fast. If they do not stand fast there are a large number of us who will be looking for a new party.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby Oldgringo » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:08 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'm a life-long conservative, death penalty-supporting, white Republican and every day that passes I become more of a minority.

Here are the hard cold facts. Obama won, the Democrats pickup seats in the Senate and in the House, and Romney got about all of the white vote possible. If the Republicans couldn't unseat an absolute failure like Obama, and couldn't gain seats in the Senate, then we had better take a hard, cold look at what we are doing wrong.

{snip}

Chas.


:iagree: ; however, it goes beyond immigration.

Religion, abortion and gay things, etc. are not matters of state. They are individual and personal family matters separate from government. Morality can not, and won't, be legislated. Get used to it. This is no longer "your father's Oldsmobile".
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby SewTexas » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:18 pm

But they are....they are a matter FOR the STATES....that's what Paul Ryan kept saying and no one wanted to listen...
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby bizarrenormality » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:40 pm

That's one of my favorite scenes from Animal House.

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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:50 pm

SewTexas wrote:But they are....they are a matter FOR the STATES....that's what Paul Ryan kept saying and no one wanted to listen...


I agree. Religion and gay marriage are not issues that divide Republicans and Hispanics; they are uniting factors. Leave it alone at the national level and focus on national issues while bringing Hispanics into the Republican Party.

Chas.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby terryg » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:27 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'm a life-long conservative, death penalty-supporting, white Republican and every day that passes I become more of a minority.

Here are the hard cold facts. Obama won, the Democrats pickup seats in the Senate and in the House, and Romney got about all of the white vote possible. If the Republicans couldn't unseat an absolute failure like Obama, and couldn't gain seats in the Senate, then we had better take a hard, cold look at what we are doing wrong.

The Republican Party better start appealing to Hispanics with whom we have a lot in common, or we will not see a Republican in the White House again. We will also see the Democrats take the House and increase their margin in the Senate. Bush won by the slimmest of margins (lost one popular vote) and he was more popular with Hispanics than any Republican candidate in years. If Republicans concede the rapidly growing Hispanic population to the Democrats, then all of us conservatives will simply have to sit back, complain, and reminisce about the "good old days."

If the Republicans had come up with some form of immigration reform, then we would have taken a much larger percentage of the Hispanic vote. White Republicans and Hispanics share a strong family values ethic and we are natural allies. Letting the immigration issue drive them to the Democratic Party is political suicide.

I know some will argue that conservatives didn't go to the polls for Romney, but that's not the case and that's not why we lost. The sad truth is this: conservatives are in the minority and this is happening at an accelerating rate. The only way to revive conservationism is to attract Hispanics and appeal to all educated young people with a message that resonates with them and doesn't simply sound like bitter old white guys.

I know many of our Members aren't going to like this post. Heck, I don't like it myself, but these are the facts and the ostrich approach never works.

Chas.


:iagree: :iagree:

And I am glad you mentioned young educated people also. I work at a university and I know the indoctrination they undergo. We have got to be able to deliver a solid message that they can identify with.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby SewTexas » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:46 pm

thing is, over the next 4 years, actually it started a few years ago, on-line colleges will/have begun to, boom....for many reasons, cost, safety and indoctrination, being among the biggest, I know that's why I've pushed my kids in that direction. My daughter has chosen one out of CA :roll: (it's an arts school and accepts everyone so she didn't have to take extra tests since she was homeschooled, plus she has a couple of friends taking classes through them)

I guess what I'm trying to say is, as the party tries to reach out to the college age, be aware of where the kids are....many of them, a growing number, are still living at home with their parents...
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby Oldgringo » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:55 pm

Oldgringo wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'm a life-long conservative, death penalty-supporting, white Republican and every day that passes I become more of a minority.

Here are the hard cold facts. Obama won, the Democrats pickup seats in the Senate and in the House, and Romney got about all of the white vote possible. If the Republicans couldn't unseat an absolute failure like Obama, and couldn't gain seats in the Senate, then we had better take a hard, cold look at what we are doing wrong.

{snip}

Chas.


:iagree: ; however, it goes beyond immigration.

Religion, abortion and gay things, etc. are not matters of state. They are individual and personal family matters separate from government. Morality can not, and won't, be legislated. Get used to it. This is no longer "your father's Oldsmobile".


I should have said State, meaning the Federal government. My apologies.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby Kythas » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:57 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'm a life-long conservative, death penalty-supporting, white Republican and every day that passes I become more of a minority.

Here are the hard cold facts. Obama won, the Democrats pickup seats in the Senate and in the House, and Romney got about all of the white vote possible. If the Republicans couldn't unseat an absolute failure like Obama, and couldn't gain seats in the Senate, then we had better take a hard, cold look at what we are doing wrong.

The Republican Party better start appealing to Hispanics with whom we have a lot in common, or we will not see a Republican in the White House again. We will also see the Democrats take the House and increase their margin in the Senate. Bush won by the slimmest of margins (lost one popular vote) and he was more popular with Hispanics than any Republican candidate in years. If Republicans concede the rapidly growing Hispanic population to the Democrats, then all of us conservatives will simply have to sit back, complain, and reminisce about the "good old days."

If the Republicans had come up with some form of immigration reform, then we would have taken a much larger percentage of the Hispanic vote. White Republicans and Hispanics share a strong family values ethic and we are natural allies. Letting the immigration issue drive them to the Democratic Party is political suicide.

I know some will argue that conservatives didn't go to the polls for Romney, but that's not the case and that's not why we lost. The sad truth is this: conservatives are in the minority and this is happening at an accelerating rate. The only way to revive conservationism is to attract Hispanics and appeal to all educated young people with a message that resonates with them and doesn't simply sound like bitter old white guys.

I know many of our Members aren't going to like this post. Heck, I don't like it myself, but these are the facts and the ostrich approach never works.

Chas.


I don't believe we'll ever see a Republican in the White House again. More people in this country want to be taken care of by the government than want to live as free men. That was the consensus this election. The Democrats are the ones with the goodie bag giving out the free stuff while the Republicans are saying we need to stop it because we can't afford it.

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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby TexasCajun » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:02 pm

Heartland Patriot wrote:Folks, just remember that the In-Justice Department, run by Eric "Brainwash Them" Holder, monitors electronic communications. Now, just saying you don't like something ain't going to raise an eyebrow, almost half this nation is pretty hot right now about the election. But advocating any sort of disturbance might raise flags with the monitoring program. It took those folks in Michigan many months to get the bulk of the (likely) trumped up charges dropped after review by a reasonable judge. The next judge that gets the next case might not be reasonable. I'm not trying to be tin-foil hat, I promise. But some things are better left unsaid where they are subject to be seen by those who would have no compunction about arresting a few more so-called "extremists" and spinning another story about it with the aid of their bought-and-paid-for propagandist cronies in the mainstream media. All that said, buy ammo...it ain't going to get any cheaper.

Please re-read my original post. I am in no way advocating violence of any kind. We need to get to work on the mid-terms, watch what the lawmakers are doing & be vocal with our support and/or disapproval.

And yes, Charles, if we also need to get involved with trying to influence a demographic shift within the republican party, then so be it. Yesterday was tough, but sometimes it takes a slap in the face to get woken up.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby Jim Beaux » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:30 pm

It's not the minorities, it's not the gays, it's not the give-aways, it's the press; and without an honest press the election process will never be representative. The MSM has become one big propaganda machine.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby srothstein » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:47 pm

Charles,

I agree with some of what you posted and disagree with some. The most important part that I don't really care about is the Republican Party. The party left me a long time ago. There are large groups of people the Republican party needs to appeal to if it wants to survive and prosper. Hispanics are one, Blacks are a second, and the libertarians (note the small "L", this is the people who hold a philosophy and not the party members particularly) are a third. All of these groups have things in common with the GOP and all have differences.

With one caution, I would say the GOP needs to really carefully examine its platform and plans. One of the few good things I see in the future for the GOP is the fact that the Democrats are a party of alliances that will fracture apart. There is no true Democratic core belief. Instead, there are alliances between extreme core beliefs from several different groups, such as the socialists, the environmentalists, the animal rights groups, the peace at any cost groups, etc. I think it will break apart under the stress of trying to govern. If the GOP tries to become a similar coalition party, it also cannot survive.

What I think most people really want to see in the US, and the GOP could pull off with some thought, is a party that fights for fiscal conservation while promoting social liberty. The GOP loses many people when they fight to keep religion in all forms of government. More and more of the country want to keep their own religion and keep it private. The GOP loses when it tries to restrict abortion, especially when it is a restriction based on a religious interpretation. I do not support abortion but I honestly don't think the government should have a say in it. Gay marriage is the same way.

Most people do support gun rights, so the GOP has a draw there. I do hold more extreme beliefs in gun rights than most Americans, but it is relatively easy to fight gun control issues when you prove that it doesn't work for the stated goal.

As you say, immigration is a major issue that the country needs to solve. I am a descendant of immigrants (well, we all are but mine is only three or four generations) and I want to go back to the days of allowing most people who want to come in and work and improve themselves to do so. If we separate the "entitlements" issue from the immigration, I think most Americans want more immigration but do not support giving them any welfare. Argue to stop most (not all, but most) welfare without regard to immigration status while removing immigration restrictions and the GOP could have a winning policy.

Which does bring us to the fiscal conservative part. I think most people in the US could support a policy that helps those who really need it (such as those unable to work) and that provides some benefit to people who need help for a short time. I am sure the GOP could develop a policy that narrows the support over a period of time and ends the generational welfare problem while still providing support for those who really do need help.

And for all of those in here who read this, I want to emphasize that I do not necessarily hold any of these beliefs. Nor do I necessarily disagree with them. My personal beliefs are along the lines of Jefferson's quote about that government which governs least governs best. I do think this type of platform is the one that would have the biggest support in the US population. It would take some demonstrated proof that they really are changing to this way of thought before they see much gain, but then it would come in a landslide. I base this one what turned me off on the GOP, and what I think could bring in the reasonable people from my extreme right side and the moderate to just left of center side people also.

Our country is very divided and now is the time for us to start working on the middle ground. The group that gets there first will control it. The average American does not want to be divided this way.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby Heartland Patriot » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:53 pm

Jim Beaux wrote:It's not the minorities, it's not the gays, it's not the give-aways, it's the press; and without an honest press the election process will never be representative. The MSM has become one big propaganda machine.


I agree 1000% with the part about the mass media. IF 99% of them weren't completely in the back pocket of the current administration, and they at least ATTEMPTED to keep the Democrat Party "honest", then I would feel like we at least had a chance...but the media in this country make me sick.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby Dave2 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:14 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:The only way to revive conservationism is to attract Hispanics and appeal to all educated young people with a message that resonates with them and doesn't simply sound like bitter old white guys.

I keep hearing this, and I don't understand it... What needs to be changed to attract Hispanics? Do the laws of logic function differently in spanish than in english?
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby RPBrown » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:03 am

Dave2 wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:The only way to revive conservationism is to attract Hispanics and appeal to all educated young people with a message that resonates with them and doesn't simply sound like bitter old white guys.

I keep hearing this, and I don't understand it... What needs to be changed to attract Hispanics? Do the laws of logic function differently in spanish than in english?



There is no logic in politics. It's whatever you can give to someone to get their vote. I heard yesterday that this overall election cost 9 billion with 6 billion of that going to the presidential. Do you think that if every average voter were to donate $20.00 that it would come to this amount? Not even close. There are large companies and in some cases other countries donating large sums of money the the campains. Do you think its for nothing, No, they are doing it to get something in return and most likely already promised.

With this in mind, we must swing the vote from hispanics and the younger generation. BHO won 78% of the hispanic vote. Folks, thats a very large number. Why, because he promised to leave the young illegals here. He may not even like the idea, but it won him the election because it appealed to his target.
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