DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby gdanaher » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:18 am

The Dallas Morning News ran a piece in the Metro section today concerning the upcoming open carry legislation.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics ... ndguns.ece

It noted that the concealed carry law has worked out but that CLEAT has mixed concerns with regard to how the general public might respond to open carry, that officers would need to respond to every call/complaint of some bad guy with a gun, and that there aren't enough cops in Texas to respond to the complaints. Really???
User avatar
gdanaher
Senior Member
 
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:38 am
Location: EM12

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby rwg3 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:00 am

I thought it was an interesting article and all things considered it did not seem terribly negative. It did point out the uphill battle that the proposed legislation would face.
"Moderation is the silken string running through the pearl-chain of all virtues", Thomas Fuller
rwg3
Senior Member
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:07 am

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby Moby » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:57 am

Beieve it or not I am unsure how I feel about this.
I have a license to carry a concealed handgun.
Right now I go most anywhere I want and no one knows I have a gun.
I also have no legal obligation to act if I see a crime with a weapon against another. (though I probably would)
I can choose to defend someone else or just protect myself and my family.
Any business can post a 30.06 sign and i cannot enter with my hundgun.

Should people in Texas start carrying openly (we are one of only 6 states in America where you cannot) then more business owners may put up that sign due to complaints from liberals and the uneducated. Then there is actually more restrictions rather than less.
It could also make a carrier a target should criminals enter an estabolishment and spot the firearm.
This could give the criminal another weapon or get someone shot.

While I like the idea of open carry, I don't think I would.
I do not like Texas being one of six states not allowing open carry.
I know, it's a conflicted thought.
:thumbs2: :nono:
Be without fear in the face of your enemies.
Stand brave and upright that the Lord may love thee.
Speak the truth always even if it means your death.
Protect the helpless and do no wrong!

Image
User avatar
Moby
Senior Member
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:41 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby TScottTX » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:08 pm

Moby wrote:Beieve it or not I am unsure how I feel about this.
I have a license to carry a concealed handgun.
Right now I go most anywhere I want and no one knows I have a gun.
I also have no legal obligation to act if I see a crime with a weapon against another. (though I probably would)
I can choose to defend someone else or just protect myself and my family.
Any business can post a 30.06 sign and i cannot enter with my hundgun.

Should people in Texas start carrying openly (we are one of only 6 states in America where you cannot) then more business owners may put up that sign due to complaints from liberals and the uneducated. Then there is actually more restrictions rather than less.
It could also make a carrier a target should criminals enter an estabolishment and spot the firearm.
This could give the criminal another weapon or get someone shot.

While I like the idea of open carry, I don't think I would.
I do not like Texas being one of six states not allowing open carry.
I know, it's a conflicted thought.
:thumbs2: :nono:


:iagree: with the potential negative points you brought out and for one, don't see a whole lot of positive aspects to outweigh them.
Image
TScottTX
Junior Member
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:52 pm
Location: DFW

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby magillapd » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:36 pm

If open carry passes....more 30.06 signs will go up. So I'm against open carry.
magillapd
Senior Member
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:44 am
Location: North Richland Hills, TX

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby baldeagle » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:39 pm

magillapd wrote:If open carry passes....more 30.06 signs will go up. So I'm against open carry.

Of course no one knows this for a fact.....
The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison
NRA Life Member Texas Firearms Coalition member
User avatar
baldeagle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4148
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:26 pm
Location: Richardson, TX

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby SewTexas » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:42 pm

magillapd wrote:If open carry passes....more 30.06 signs will go up. So I'm against open carry.


this was not the case in CO. I've not heard of this happening in OK. Besides the fact that 30.06 is strictly for cc
~Tracy
Barracktose Intolerant
SewTexas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1785
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:52 pm
Location: San Antonio area

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby AEA » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:45 pm

TScottTX wrote:
Moby wrote:Beieve it or not I am unsure how I feel about this.
I have a license to carry a concealed handgun.
Right now I go most anywhere I want and no one knows I have a gun.
I also have no legal obligation to act if I see a crime with a weapon against another. (though I probably would)
I can choose to defend someone else or just protect myself and my family.
Any business can post a 30.06 sign and i cannot enter with my hundgun.

Should people in Texas start carrying openly (we are one of only 6 states in America where you cannot) then more business owners may put up that sign due to complaints from liberals and the uneducated. Then there is actually more restrictions rather than less.
It could also make a carrier a target should criminals enter an estabolishment and spot the firearm.
This could give the criminal another weapon or get someone shot.

While I like the idea of open carry, I don't think I would.
I do not like Texas being one of six states not allowing open carry.
I know, it's a conflicted thought.
:thumbs2: :nono:


:iagree: with the potential negative points you brought out and for one, don't see a whole lot of positive aspects to outweigh them.


What about the aspect of "Shall NOT be infringed"?
Last edited by AEA on Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alan - ANYTHING I write is MY OPINION only.
Certified Curmudgeon - But, my German Shepherd loves me!
NRA-Life, USN '65-'69 & '73-'79: RM1
1911's RULE!
User avatar
AEA
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5112
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: North Texas

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby recaffeination » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:02 pm

Some people keep their religious beliefs private. Concealed. Other people are very open about their religious beliefs in spoken word or display. For example, wearing a crucifix, a yamulke, or a burqa. Or having a manger that's visible to the public. Or the adjascent table in a restaurant being able to see or hear you saying grace.

I think open or concealed carry should be a personal choice, like concealing or openly displaying your religious beliefs. And for fundamentally similar reasons.
This message was misspelled by my Apple mobile device.
recaffeination
Senior Member
 
Posts: 586
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:07 pm

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby tacticool » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:43 pm

gdanaher wrote:The Dallas Morning News ran a piece in the Metro section today concerning the upcoming open carry legislation.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics ... ndguns.ece

It noted that the concealed carry law has worked out but that CLEAT has mixed concerns with regard to how the general public might respond to open carry, that officers would need to respond to every call/complaint of some bad guy with a gun, and that there aren't enough cops in Texas to respond to the complaints. Really???

For bigots and idiots, it probably makes sense. They sound like the kind of people who think it's a good idea to ban turbans and keffiyeh in public, because the public is going to panic and call the police to report terrorists, and there aren't enough cops in Texas to respond to the complaints. :roll:

If handgun carry reform falls short again in Texas, maybe in late 2013 some community organizers should organize their people to call in MWAG whenever they see an armed security guard or a cop openly carrying. It's not a false police report if it's true. :evil2:
When in doubt
Vote them out!
User avatar
tacticool
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 2:41 pm

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby RPB » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:51 pm

1) What if in that same sandwich shop, a customer walks in wearing an openly carried knife on their belt ...
2) suppose they call police
3) police arrive to be sure the customer has the knife legally...

Interesting article.
I'm no lawyer

"Never show your hole card" "Always have something in reserve"
RPB
Banned
 
Posts: 8697
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby The Annoyed Man » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:15 pm

SewTexas wrote:
magillapd wrote:If open carry passes....more 30.06 signs will go up. So I'm against open carry.


this was not the case in CO. I've not heard of this happening in OK. Besides the fact that 30.06 is strictly for cc

But in Texas, if OC passes, 30.06 language will be modified to include OC, not just CC. According to Charles, that's the only way OC will pass—with the 30.06 changes so that it will apply to both CC and OC. Whether that will result in a lot of new signs sprouting up or not remains to be seen, but my gut feeling is that there will be some reaction that way on the part of business owners. You can't realistically say that ALL business owners will learn to post 30.06, but neither can you realistically state that none or few will post new 30.06 signs. This is NOT Oklahoma, with Oklahoma's signage requirements (which are very different than our 30.06 requirements), so you can't really draw an accurate comparison to predict what will happend here in Texas based on what happens in Oklahoma.

For me, it begs a few questions.... Will OC still require a class and permit with a background check the way CHL does? If so, what percentage of CHLs—the largest part of whom apparently don't carry concealed regularly or ever anyway—will bother to OC? Probably a very small percentage. What percentage of people who currently don't have a CHL would bother to get a permit just so they can OC? ALSO probably a pretty small percentage.

While I'm not opposed to O.C. as part of "Constitutional Carry," I do think that the negative impact of a modified 30.06 against all CHLs has to be balanced against the relatively small number of people who are going to either obtain a CHL just so they can OC, or current CHLs who will begin to OC if it passes in any other context than Constitutional Carry. Anything else is simply unrealistic thinking, not to mention irresponsible thinking, and it would probably negatively impact more CHLs by keeping them out of business they used to be able to frequent, than the number of people who want to OC who would be positively impacted. In short, the negatives most likely outweigh the positives for the largest part of CHL holders, and OC advocates need to be sensitive to that. If they refuse to be sensitive to that, then they cannot realistically expect the support of people for whom that is a concern.

Since the most vocal OC proponents are likely far outnumbered within the firearms carrying community by those who are far more ambivalent, if they're not willing to compromise and be sensitive to the concerns of the rest, then they are not very likely to get even a part of what they want.....

.....and that, my friends, is politics.
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself." — Me
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." — H. L. Mencken
"A ragamuffin knows he’s only a beggar at the door of God’s mercy." — The Ragamuffin Gospel, by Brennan Manning
User avatar
The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
 
Posts: 16996
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: Grapevine, Texas

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby tacticool » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:42 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
SewTexas wrote:
magillapd wrote:If open carry passes....more 30.06 signs will go up. So I'm against open carry.


this was not the case in CO. I've not heard of this happening in OK. Besides the fact that 30.06 is strictly for cc

But in Texas, if OC passes, 30.06 language will be modified to include OC, not just CC.

You know this as a fact, how? :headscratch Off the top of my head, I can see several ways OC could be decriminalized without touching the 30.06 language at all. The most straightforward would be to strike 46.035(a) from the Texas Penal Code. Maybe too straightforward, so it probably has no chance of passing in a body overrun with lawyers. :lol:
A slightly more convoluted way is to amend 46.035 like so:
45.035 (i) Subsections (a), (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Ideally 46.035 should be repealed in its entirety (well, most of 46 actually, while we're dreaming) but that would require the majority of both the Texas House and Senate to be pro gun and pro CHL, which the 2011 session showed not to be true. There's too many Texas legislators (who really deserved a C grade from the NRA, but that's a debate for another thread) who are neither significantly anti gun nor pro gun.
When in doubt
Vote them out!
User avatar
tacticool
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 2:41 pm

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby C-dub » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:14 pm

I thought Charles said that he and others would not allow OC to pass if changes to 30.06 were going to be required. I don't think that OC will pas this upcoming session, but it might in two more years after Oklahoma has gone fora couple of years without any or too many problems. If they can get through a couple of years I think Texas might use some of the good things in Oklahoma's law here.

Also, I understand the "shall not be infringed" thing, but we are so far past being infringed due to courts allowing it to be "regulated." Like most things, however, it is over regulated and that's all we can fight against now.
"Immediate necessity makes many things convenient, which if continued would grow into oppressions." Thomas Paine, 1776
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan, January 20, 1981, Inaugural Address
User avatar
C-dub
Senior Member
 
Posts: 8506
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby mamabearCali » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:46 pm

Well, we have open carry in Va. If you can own it you can carry it openly. There are a few places with the no gun signs, but most of the time it is not that big of a deal. I OC from time to time. I have a CHL for the times discretion is desirable. We don't usually have problems with LEOs as they know the drill. We don't have problems in our community because if they call in a MWAG the operators are trained to handle it on the phone and not involve the LEO if is just an OC.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.

"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
mamabearCali
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2185
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:14 pm
Location: Chesterfield, VA

Next

Return to Open-Carry Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: locke_n_load and 2 guests