DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby emcee rib » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:19 pm

TexasCajun wrote:As is stated on the TSRA response cards for 30.06, CHL holders are generally the more law-abiding, responsible, and upstanding citizens. So why would there be an automatic prohibition against this cream of the crop carrying practically everywhere???

Why should there be an automatic prohibition against those same people open carrying?
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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:55 pm

emcee rib wrote:
TexasCajun wrote:As is stated on the TSRA response cards for 30.06, CHL holders are generally the more law-abiding, responsible, and upstanding citizens. So why would there be an automatic prohibition against this cream of the crop carrying practically everywhere???

Why should there be an automatic prohibition against those same people open carrying?


The "automatic" part of the equation comes from the use of one sign to prohibit open and concealed carry. Therefore, it would be the act of openly-carrying a handgun that would prompt a business/property owner to post a 30.06 sign. If 30.06 applies to both open and concealed carry, the property owner would have only two options, 1) allow both open or concealed carry; or 2) prohibit both.

Do I take it from your post that you agree with modifying TPC §30.06 to cover both open and concealed carry?

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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby emcee rib » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:56 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Do I take it from your post that you agree with modifying TPC §30.06 to cover both open and concealed carry?

Chas.

I don't know what you take from my post but my intention was to point out that TexasCajun's "cream of the crop" argument supports open carry just as much as it supports campus carry and sporting event carry.
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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby jordanmills » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:39 am

magillapd wrote:If open carry passes....more 30.06 signs will go up. So I'm against open carry.

And there will be blood in the streets, and there will be shootouts at noon, and all the other tired old excuses that never actually happened in any other state that has OC.
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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby steveincowtown » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:06 am

jordanmills wrote:
magillapd wrote:If open carry passes....more 30.06 signs will go up. So I'm against open carry.

And there will be blood in the streets, and there will be shootouts at noon, and all the other tired old excuses that never actually happened in any other state that has OC.

:iagree:
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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:03 pm

emcee rib wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Do I take it from your post that you agree with modifying TPC §30.06 to cover both open and concealed carry?

Chas.

I don't know what you take from my post but my intention was to point out that TexasCajun's "cream of the crop" argument supports open carry just as much as it supports campus carry and sporting event carry.


That was question, not a statement. Now how about an answer. Do you support amending TPC §30.06 to apply to both open and concealed carry?

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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:06 pm

jordanmills wrote:
magillapd wrote:If open carry passes....more 30.06 signs will go up. So I'm against open carry.

And there will be blood in the streets, and there will be shootouts at noon, and all the other tired old excuses that never actually happened in any other state that has OC.


You're not doing this again this session. Stop now.

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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby RottenApple » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:43 pm

jordanmills wrote:And there will be blood in the streets, and there will be shootouts at noon, and all the other tired old excuses that never actually happened in any other state that has OC.


No other state has 30.06, therefore there is no good comparison that can be made.
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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby emcee rib » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:26 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
emcee rib wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Do I take it from your post that you agree with modifying TPC §30.06 to cover both open and concealed carry?

Chas.

I don't know what you take from my post but my intention was to point out that TexasCajun's "cream of the crop" argument supports open carry just as much as it supports campus carry and sporting event carry.


That was question, not a statement. Now how about an answer.

I know my intention and explained that, but I can only guess what you take from my posts. You are the only person who can know how you took it. To put it another way, "Objection. Calls for speculation."


Charles L. Cotton wrote:Do you support amending TPC §30.06 to apply to both open and concealed carry?

No. I think don't think we need to change TPC §30.06 for open carry. I support striking TPC §46.035(a) and maybe some other subsections related to CHL specific restrictions, and renumbering what remains. My second choice is to leave TPC §46.035(a) intact but remove the penalty, like was done for failing to display the license.
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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby gdanaher » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:05 pm

I think co-mingling signage for concealed and open would result in more misunderstandings amongst the general population than we already have, and likely create more headaches for the concealed only folks. I doubt that in practice that many people would open carry on any regular basis. Once the new wears off, it's more likely a practice for unique situations. Personally, I would rather be keeping the bad guys wondering who in the teller line is armed and who isn't rather than setting myself up to be the first targeted victim of the bank robber. But, I want the option to choose when and how I carry.
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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:26 pm

emcee rib wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
emcee rib wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Do I take it from your post that you agree with modifying TPC §30.06 to cover both open and concealed carry?

Chas.

I don't know what you take from my post but my intention was to point out that TexasCajun's "cream of the crop" argument supports open carry just as much as it supports campus carry and sporting event carry.


That was question, not a statement. Now how about an answer.

I know my intention and explained that, but I can only guess what you take from my posts. You are the only person who can know how you took it. To put it another way, "Objection. Calls for speculation."


Stop now.

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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby harrycallahan » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:44 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
mamabearCali wrote:Well, we have open carry in Va. If you can own it you can carry it openly. There are a few places with the no gun signs, but most of the time it is not that big of a deal. I OC from time to time. I have a CHL for the times discretion is desirable. We don't usually have problems with LEOs as they know the drill. We don't have problems in our community because if they call in a MWAG the operators are trained to handle it on the phone and not involve the LEO if is just an OC.


I have been going to Fairfax and Arlington Virginia 6 to 8 times a year since 2001 and I've never seen one person carrying openly. I'm not saying it isn't done, but I am saying I've seen many tens of thousands of Virginians and not one has been carrying openly.

Chas.


How do other states handle CC/OC and the rights of business owners right to restrict? Some here act as if they can carry nowhere, but I don't feel that way. I personally don't care if 30.06 is modified to cover OC, I just wish that to have the signage, the business had to apply for it and be granted the right in order to deny me mine. The privilege to put up a 30.06 should take a back individual right to carry. I prefer the CC method, but I am always in fear accidental exposure and I'd go for OC just to help me out with that. I'm new to CC so I really don't know. I am not trying to start an all out fight, I'm just asking.
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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:16 pm

harrycallahan wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
mamabearCali wrote:Well, we have open carry in Va. If you can own it you can carry it openly. There are a few places with the no gun signs, but most of the time it is not that big of a deal. I OC from time to time. I have a CHL for the times discretion is desirable. We don't usually have problems with LEOs as they know the drill. We don't have problems in our community because if they call in a MWAG the operators are trained to handle it on the phone and not involve the LEO if is just an OC.


I have been going to Fairfax and Arlington Virginia 6 to 8 times a year since 2001 and I've never seen one person carrying openly. I'm not saying it isn't done, but I am saying I've seen many tens of thousands of Virginians and not one has been carrying openly.

Chas.


How do other states handle CC/OC and the rights of business owners right to restrict? Some here act as if they can carry nowhere, but I don't feel that way. I personally don't care if 30.06 is modified to cover OC, I just wish that to have the signage, the business had to apply for it and be granted the right in order to deny me mine. The privilege to put up a 30.06 should take a back individual right to carry. I prefer the CC method, but I am always in fear accidental exposure and I'd go for OC just to help me out with that. I'm new to CC so I really don't know. I am not trying to start an all out fight, I'm just asking.


I can't begin to tell you how other states handle the issue, but I can tell you that I don't know of any state that has a system like you suggest.

Don't worry about accidental exposure, it's not illegal.

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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby sunny beach » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:42 pm

harrycallahan wrote:How do other states handle CC/OC and the rights of business owners right to restrict? Some here act as if they can carry nowhere, but I don't feel that way. I personally don't care if 30.06 is modified to cover OC, I just wish that to have the signage, the business had to apply for it and be granted the right in order to deny me mine. The privilege to put up a 30.06 should take a back individual right to carry.

I think individuals and organizations should be able to use the trespassing laws to protect their property rights.
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Re: DMN on Open Carry 11/25/12

Postby baldeagle » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:11 pm

sunny beach wrote:
harrycallahan wrote:How do other states handle CC/OC and the rights of business owners right to restrict? Some here act as if they can carry nowhere, but I don't feel that way. I personally don't care if 30.06 is modified to cover OC, I just wish that to have the signage, the business had to apply for it and be granted the right in order to deny me mine. The privilege to put up a 30.06 should take a back individual right to carry.

I think individuals and organizations should be able to use the trespassing laws to protect their property rights.

That would mean that any sort of no guns allowed sign would be acceptable. I hope that's not what you want. It's certainly not what I want.
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