Open-Carry Discussions

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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby TexasCajun » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:57 am

It might be a bit nieve to think that open carry would go largely unnoticed, at least at first. If there's a large scale publicity campaign before open carry is enacted, it'll really be on everyone's radar.
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby mojo84 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:10 pm

Bottom line is, I don't think property owner's rights or gun ownership and carry rights in any of the open carry or campus carry states have come crashing down because open carry or campus carry is allowed.

I don't think anyone wants to look at what other states have done or are doing and follow them blindly. I do think we can look at the results other states have had and are having and then craft our own legislation accordingly to accomplish what we need to accomplish as a state.

The politicians are to busy playing political games and trying to maintain political leverage and capital so they can maintain control and influence rather than just doing what is Constitutional and right for the State of Texas.
"The laws which forbid men to bear arms … only disarm those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes,” Cesare Beccaria, an Italian scholar, wrote in his 1764 treatise on the subject. “These laws make the victims of attack worse off and improve the position of the assailant.”
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby recaffeination » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:36 pm

mojo84 wrote:Bottom line is, I don't think property owner's rights or gun ownership and carry rights in any of the open carry or campus carry states have come crashing down because open carry or campus carry is allowed.

I don't think anyone wants to look at what other states have done or are doing and follow them blindly. I do think we can look at the results other states have had and are having and then craft our own legislation accordingly to accomplish what we need to accomplish as a state.

The politicians are to busy playing political games and trying to maintain political leverage and capital so they can maintain control and influence rather than just doing what is Constitutional and right for the State of Texas.

I agree. Many states allow citizens to openly carry a handgun without any license. That isn't even on the table for next year, as far as I know. The expected proposal is to allow licensed people to choose for ourselves whether or not to hide our handgun, and switch back and forth based on our wardrobe, the weather, and other environmental factors. Compared to the unlicensed open carry allowed by some neighbor states, licensed open carry is a modest baby step.

Other than Texas, does anyone know what "shall issue" states have jail time as the penalty for licensees who do not conceal their handgun?
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby SA-TX » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:01 pm

recaffeination wrote:Other than Texas, does anyone know what "shall issue" states have jail time as the penalty for licensees who do not conceal their handgun?


I do not know for sure but think I remember a FL license holder arrested for it. Whether or not that can result in jail time or not I don't know. The states, off of the top of my head, to research would be AR, FL, SC, perhaps MS.
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby Oldgringo » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:15 pm

mojo84 wrote:Bottom line is, I don't think property owner's rights or gun ownership and carry rights in any of the open carry or campus carry states have come crashing down because open carry or campus carry is allowed.

I don't think anyone wants to look at what other states have done or are doing and follow them blindly. I do think we can look at the results other states have had and are having and then craft our own legislation accordingly to accomplish what we need to accomplish as a state.

The politicians are to busy playing political games and trying to maintain political leverage and capital so they can maintain control, their pensions and benefits and influence rather than just doing what is Constitutional and right for the State of Texas.


Fixed that for you. :tiphat:
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:24 pm

Oldgringo wrote:
mojo84 wrote:Bottom line is, I don't think property owner's rights or gun ownership and carry rights in any of the open carry or campus carry states have come crashing down because open carry or campus carry is allowed.

I don't think anyone wants to look at what other states have done or are doing and follow them blindly. I do think we can look at the results other states have had and are having and then craft our own legislation accordingly to accomplish what we need to accomplish as a state.

The politicians are to busy playing political games and trying to maintain political leverage and capital so they can maintain control, their pensions and benefits and influence rather than just doing what is Constitutional and right for the State of Texas.


Fixed that for you. :tiphat:

Do you know what Texas legislators earn?

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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby smoothoperator » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:40 pm

I thought I remembered hearing Ann Richards ran for governor because the retirement benefits were better. :lol:
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby E.Marquez » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:44 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Do you know what Texas legislators earn?

Chas.

I understand the following to be current
salary is set by TX. Constitution of 1876. $600 a month or $7,200 a year since 1876.
Legislators expense allowance of more than $168 per diem in a session in addition to "base pay"
Last edited by E.Marquez on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby Oldgringo » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:45 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
mojo84 wrote:Bottom line is, I don't think property owner's rights or gun ownership and carry rights in any of the open carry or campus carry states have come crashing down because open carry or campus carry is allowed.

I don't think anyone wants to look at what other states have done or are doing and follow them blindly. I do think we can look at the results other states have had and are having and then craft our own legislation accordingly to accomplish what we need to accomplish as a state.

The politicians are to busy playing political games and trying to maintain political leverage and capital so they can maintain control, their pensions and benefits and influence rather than just doing what is Constitutional and right for the State of Texas.


Fixed that for you. :tiphat:

Do you know what Texas legislators earn?

Chas.


I believe it's $7,200 per year or $14,400 per session plus $128/day for expenses during the 140 day session. Isn't their families health care part of their package and legislators' pensions tied to District Judge salaries as well?

http://www.chron.com/news/article/State ... 929704.php
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:58 pm

Oldgringo wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
mojo84 wrote:Bottom line is, I don't think property owner's rights or gun ownership and carry rights in any of the open carry or campus carry states have come crashing down because open carry or campus carry is allowed.

I don't think anyone wants to look at what other states have done or are doing and follow them blindly. I do think we can look at the results other states have had and are having and then craft our own legislation accordingly to accomplish what we need to accomplish as a state.

The politicians are to busy playing political games and trying to maintain political leverage and capital so they can maintain control, their pensions and benefits and influence rather than just doing what is Constitutional and right for the State of Texas.


Fixed that for you. :tiphat:

Do you know what Texas legislators earn?

Chas.


I believe it's $7,200 per year or $14,400 per session plus $128/day for expenses during the 140 day session. Isn't their families health care part of their package and legislators' pensions tied to District Judge salaries as well?

http://www.chron.com/news/article/State ... 929704.php


You're almost right. $600/month ($7,200/yr.) plus $150/day while in session. They also get health insurance coverage, including their family. Their retirement is $36,000 if they serve at least 12 years.

Anyone trying to feather their nest by serving in the Texas Legislature doesn't want much of a nest. I've had people ask me to run for the Texas House in years past and I told them they must be smoking hash!

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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby SA-TX » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:23 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
mojo84 wrote:Bottom line is, I don't think property owner's rights or gun ownership and carry rights in any of the open carry or campus carry states have come crashing down because open carry or campus carry is allowed.

I don't think anyone wants to look at what other states have done or are doing and follow them blindly. I do think we can look at the results other states have had and are having and then craft our own legislation accordingly to accomplish what we need to accomplish as a state.

The politicians are to busy playing political games and trying to maintain political leverage and capital so they can maintain control, their pensions and benefits and influence rather than just doing what is Constitutional and right for the State of Texas.


Fixed that for you. :tiphat:

Do you know what Texas legislators earn?

Chas.


I believe it's $7,200 per year or $14,400 per session plus $128/day for expenses during the 140 day session. Isn't their families health care part of their package and legislators' pensions tied to District Judge salaries as well?

http://www.chron.com/news/article/State ... 929704.php


You're almost right. $600/month ($7,200/yr.) plus $150/day while in session. They also get health insurance coverage, including their family. Their retirement is $36,000 if they serve at least 12 years.

Anyone trying to feather their nest by serving in the Texas Legislature doesn't want much of a nest. I've had people ask me to run for the Texas House in years past and I told them they must be smoking hash!

Chas.

Chas.


How about Lt. Governor where you could really do some good. I don't smoke, BTW. :biggrinjester:
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby Richard_B » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:04 pm

Perhaps we should examine the state constitution as the basis for any of this. "Sec. 23. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime."

It is the semi-colon and following, however, that raises the questions. Can anyone actually demonstrate how any of the restrictive provisions enacted by the various legislatures over the years have actually prevented, or even reduced, crime? I think it improbable that such can be demonstrated with any degree of conviction.

Where does this leave us? We have a hodge podge of laws enacted to restrict, in many circumstances prohibit the carrying of arms, not just firearms. For example, take the knife of Jim Bowie, hero of the Alamo. Though no once actually knows what the knife he died with actually looked like, and the legislature is unable to define it, the legislature has seen fit to ban it by name no matter its size. Then there are other restrictions, which are plainly arbitrary, on the blade size and design of knives, swords and a variety of other arms which are simply banned. To me at least, it seems plainly evident that the Legislature has overstepped its bounds.

Many apparently prefer to deal with specific issues with detailed legislation rather than addressing the matter directly. I would prefer making the state a constitutional carry state by simply striking everything after the semi-colon in Article 1, Section 23.

Charles may recall a case in Austin in which a man was walking down the street with two swords. When asked by the police just why he was doing so, he responded "just in case I need them." He represented himself at trial and on appeal with a sadly predictable result. The point is that the constitution deals with arms, not just firearms and most provisions are simply repressive with little, if any, constitutional justification for their enactment. It is plainly evident in listening to some representatives in Austin that they have never thought for a moment about the constitutional limitations upon their authority to legislate in this arena.
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby MeMelYup » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:38 pm

Can someone define "with a view to prevent crime".
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby canvasbck » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:48 pm

MeMelYup wrote:Can someone define "with a view to prevent crime".


Throwing out a wild guess here, but I'm guessing it goes back to the old west days when a town would prohibit carrying within the city limits whenever there was "trouble" in the area. Nah, I've just watched Tombstone too many times.
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Re: Open-Carry Discussions

Postby pcgizzmo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
mojo84 wrote:Bottom line is, I don't think property owner's rights or gun ownership and carry rights in any of the open carry or campus carry states have come crashing down because open carry or campus carry is allowed.

I don't think anyone wants to look at what other states have done or are doing and follow them blindly. I do think we can look at the results other states have had and are having and then craft our own legislation accordingly to accomplish what we need to accomplish as a state.

The politicians are to busy playing political games and trying to maintain political leverage and capital so they can maintain control, their pensions and benefits and influence rather than just doing what is Constitutional and right for the State of Texas.


Fixed that for you. :tiphat:

Do you know what Texas legislators earn?

Chas.


I believe it's $7,200 per year or $14,400 per session plus $128/day for expenses during the 140 day session. Isn't their families health care part of their package and legislators' pensions tied to District Judge salaries as well?

http://www.chron.com/news/article/State ... 929704.php


You're almost right. $600/month ($7,200/yr.) plus $150/day while in session. They also get health insurance coverage, including their family. Their retirement is $36,000 if they serve at least 12 years.

Anyone trying to feather their nest by serving in the Texas Legislature doesn't want much of a nest. I've had people ask me to run for the Texas House in years past and I told them they must be smoking hash!

Chas.

Chas.


I'd like to think that every person there is running out of the need to feel like they are contributing to their state but we'd be amiss if we didn't say that at least some probably are also interested in the contacts and attention being a legislator brings as well as doing good for the state which in the long run could be worth more than a salary.
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