Open carry in Oklahoma.

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Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby TacShot » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:26 am

Open carry in Oklahoma has caused one very big problem. Since the law passed, police have reported business owners are calling to request information on how to keep guns out of their establishments. Open carry, is very much an in-your-face issue to people who are anti-gun, not interested in guns, or simply frightened by guns. Many establishments, whose owners were happy to not know if a person was carrying concealed, will now be posted against all carry. There may be a lesson here.
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby Vol Texan » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:35 am

TacShot wrote:Since the law passed, police have reported business owners are calling to request information on how to keep guns out of their establishments. Open carry, is very much an in-your-face issue to people who are anti-gun, not interested in guns, or simply frightened by guns. Many establishments, whose owners were happy to not know if a person was carrying concealed, will now be posted against all carry. There may be a lesson here.


To be honest, this is my biggest concern about open carry, and I don't doubt that this is a possibility. However, I would prefer if you could show a link to a news site or some other source that supports your statement. Can you share with us where you learned this info?
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby mojo84 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:51 am

I too would like to know the source for this info.
"The laws which forbid men to bear arms … only disarm those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes,” Cesare Beccaria, an Italian scholar, wrote in his 1764 treatise on the subject. “These laws make the victims of attack worse off and improve the position of the assailant.”
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby Mike1951 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:48 am

Here's one:

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/in-th ... ssues.aspx
http://newsok.com/oklahomas-new-open-ca ... le/3734176

The law resulted in few enforcement issues in the month since it took effect Nov. 1, Capt. Dexter Nelson said. However, auto burglaries — a common way criminals acquire the weapons — are up, Nelson said.

Dispatchers have received calls regarding the law change, mostly from business owners who wanted information about signs stating guns aren't allowed inside, Nelson said.
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby RoyGBiv » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:31 am

IF... IF folks who care about 2A decide to avoid posted businesses, the trend will be shortlived and reverse on its own. We saw a similar thing in NC when CC was first enacted (mid 90's). Several businesses posted gunbuster signs (which have the force of law in NC). I personally had several conversations with owners of small local businesses that I was leaving. Within a few months, most of the signs were taken down.

I recall one conversation with my local dry cleaner. This was a small, rural town and there was only one dry cleaner, and I was wearing suits and ties to work at the time. Giving up my dry cleaner was going to be a pain. I asked the owner why she posted the sign and she said "The bible says thou shalt not kill.", I reminded her that the commandment was actually "Thou shalt not murder" and that in Hebrew, as in English, "kill" and "murder" were clearly different words with different meanings. Of course I also asked her if she thought her sign would stop a criminal intent on robbing her. At the end of our conversation I politely explained that since I shop at the supermarket next door, I'd see if/when the sign came down and that would be the next time I'd do business with her. It took about 4-5 weeks, but the sign came down.

Hopefully the same will be true in Oklahoma. If not, there will be an opportunity for 2A/OC-friendly folks to start competing businesses.
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby steveincowtown » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:37 am

TacShot wrote:Open carry in Oklahoma has caused one very big problem. Since the law passed, police have reported business owners are calling to request information on how to keep guns out of their establishments. Open carry, is very much an in-your-face issue to people who are anti-gun, not interested in guns, or simply frightened by guns. Many establishments, whose owners were happy to not know if a person was carrying concealed, will now be posted against all carry. There may be a lesson here.


IIRC, Signs in OK do not carry the force of law, so there really is no comparison to what we might encounter in TX.

I stand by my previous statements that 30.06 needs to be reworked.

Edited to add: even if they are posted it won't keep people from legally carrying concealed.
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby Vol Texan » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:50 am

Mike 1951, Thanks for the link. I had read that article, and to be honest, I'd missed that one sentence my first pass through.

I hope that Charles is correct: if OC is passed in Texas, then there will be a clear distinction in the law between OC and CC. Even though a good number of businesses are comforted by the fact that they post a 'no guns' sign, it's great that they really have no idea that it applies to us. If, however, a bill is written such that the mechanism for blocking OC is the same one required for blocking CC (i.e. 30.06), then I'm concerned that our freedom to CC will be restricted further as businesses begin to educate themselves.

As Charles mentioned in this thread (http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=59973&start=30#p736669), there has been a lot of discussion about this over the years. As a newbie on this forum in 2012, I don't know the full history. I hope that IF a bill is presented, it will be as Charles mentioned (with a distinction between the two), but to be honest, I don't trust every legislator / judge / etc. to have our best interests at heart.

I'll continue to monitor the progress here on the forum, and I'll make sure to communicate with our legislators if Charles suggests it's going the wrong way.
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby Mike1951 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:04 am

steveincowtown wrote:
TacShot wrote:Open carry in Oklahoma has caused one very big problem. Since the law passed, police have reported business owners are calling to request information on how to keep guns out of their establishments. Open carry, is very much an in-your-face issue to people who are anti-gun, not interested in guns, or simply frightened by guns. Many establishments, whose owners were happy to not know if a person was carrying concealed, will now be posted against all carry. There may be a lesson here.


IIRC, Signs in OK do not carry the force of law, so there really is no comparison to what we might encounter in TX.

I stand by my previous statements that 30.06 needs to be reworked.

Edited to add: even if they are posted it won't keep people from legally carrying concealed.


I tried to read the text of SB 1733 and found no mention of signage. Unfortunately, the PDF at the Sec of State site wasn't searchable.

http://www.sos.ok.gov/documents/legisla ... B/1733.pdf

But the FAQ at the Governor's site includes:

http://www.ok.gov/governor/OpenCarryFAQ.html

Q: At what places am I not allowed to carry a handgun?
A: Generally, you cannot openly carry at the following places or events:
•Private businesses, organizations or residences that prohibit open carry


This would indicate a method does exist for posting or notification.
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby steveincowtown » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:18 am

Mike1951 wrote:
steveincowtown wrote:
TacShot wrote:Open carry in Oklahoma has caused one very big problem. Since the law passed, police have reported business owners are calling to request information on how to keep guns out of their establishments. Open carry, is very much an in-your-face issue to people who are anti-gun, not interested in guns, or simply frightened by guns. Many establishments, whose owners were happy to not know if a person was carrying concealed, will now be posted against all carry. There may be a lesson here.


IIRC, Signs in OK do not carry the force of law, so there really is no comparison to what we might encounter in TX.

I stand by my previous statements that 30.06 needs to be reworked.

Edited to add: even if they are posted it won't keep people from legally carrying concealed.


I tried to read the text of SB 1733 and found no mention of signage. Unfortunately, the PDF at the Sec of State site wasn't searchable.

http://www.sos.ok.gov/documents/legisla ... B/1733.pdf

But the FAQ at the Governor's site includes:

http://www.ok.gov/governor/OpenCarryFAQ.html

Q: At what places am I not allowed to carry a handgun?
A: Generally, you cannot openly carry at the following places or events:
•Private businesses, organizations or residences that prohibit open carry


This would indicate a method does exist for posting or notification.


IANAL, but it does exists but amount to just a "no trespassing" sign. If you are OCing you may be asked to leave, and if you don't will be cited with trespassing. If you are concealed carrying the sign means nothing.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/oklahoma.pdf


On page 6 of this PDF. For some reason my phone is not letting me cut/paste.
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby JChoate81 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:29 pm

Being a born Okie I am not interested in open carry. I think it puts a big target on me for a bad guy trying to figure out who to shoot first. I'll keep mine concealed!
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby cling » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:27 pm

JChoate81 wrote:Being a born Okie I am not interested in open carry. I think it puts a big target on me for a bad guy trying to figure out who to shoot first. I'll keep mine concealed!

Being a Texan, I'm not interested in carrying a .380 or smaller caliber. Being a Texan, I'm also not interested in imposing my preferences on other people as long as they reciprocate.
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby Abraham » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:42 pm

O.C. can happen or not.

Yes or no is ok with me, either way, I'll remained concealed.

Also, while I wish the businesses that impose 30.06 would realize the error of their ways, it's their right to bar folks from carrying into their business.

I try not to do business with 30.06 businesses, but I wouldn't attempt to impose my wishes on them either.
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby JKTex » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:47 pm

JChoate81 wrote:Being a born Okie I am not interested in open carry. I think it puts a big target on me for a bad guy trying to figure out who to shoot first. I'll keep mine concealed!


Being an Okie, or Texas or New Yorker or Californian or a Floridian or a Kansan.....I/you/we/they don't/shouldn't care about anyone's opinion about how they like or do not like to carry, dress, eat, walk barefoot on hot concrete or music they listen too.......it's irrelevant in the discussion of legislation.

It's about personal choice and responsible freedom. The state of Texas has the authority to determine how we wear a firearm and that authority should no longer restrict responsible Texans. :txflag:
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby Panda » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:10 pm

JKTex wrote:
JChoate81 wrote:Being a born Okie I am not interested in open carry. I think it puts a big target on me for a bad guy trying to figure out who to shoot first. I'll keep mine concealed!


Being an Okie, or Texas or New Yorker or Californian or a Floridian or a Kansan.....I/you/we/they don't/shouldn't care about anyone's opinion about how they like or do not like to carry, dress, eat, walk barefoot on hot concrete or music they listen too.......it's irrelevant in the discussion of legislation.

It's about personal choice and responsible freedom. The state of Texas has the authority to determine how we wear a firearm and that authority should no longer restrict responsible Texans. :txflag:

Well said. If our choices dont hurt another physically or financially, its none of their business.
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Re: Open carry in Oklahoma.

Postby sdmahoney » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:44 am

JChoate81 wrote:Being a born Okie I am not interested in open carry. I think it puts a big target on me for a bad guy trying to figure out who to shoot first. I'll keep mine concealed!



I hear this argument all the time, but I have never seen any evidence that it is true. More likely, the criminal will wait for you to leave, or find an easier target. Most criminals are not out looking for a hard target.
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