PolL: Open-carry v. campus-carry

[Charles L. Cotton]

I'm new to these forums and have only posted in one topic previously, but I have something to say. I believe it's rational, intelligent, and well-considered, and I assume those qualities aren't frowned upon in a gun rights discussion, so here goes:

The drive to lift any real or habitual restriction on open carry in Texas is not a drive to secure new rights; it is not an attempt to carve out a parochial, niche allowance that benefits a fairly small minority of Texas residents. The drive to reestablish the right to open carry a handgun in Texas is a drive to declare the fundamental liberty to which Man is entitled. While I understand and appreciate the motivations, strategic or otherwise, of those who favor endorsing campus carry over open carry, I don't understand how such a relatively-inconsequential microcosm of gun rights has gained such traction among those who strive toward greater liberty for gun owners. I fear there is far too much John Boehner at work, here, and we've just seen what happens when his ilk are allowed to hold sway. Regardless, the state of Texas has a golden opportunity, particularly in these emotion-driven times, to assert the primacy of liberty on the national stage by taking an unshakable stand in favor of open carry. Such a stand would do infinitely more for the promotion of gun rights than would quibbling over something so relatively innocuous as campus concealed carry. If we are to think strategically, should we not think strategically?

As others have posted, open-carry merely deals with how CHL's can carry a handgun, not whether or where guns can be carried. Campus-carry will save lives, open-carry will not. This is not "quibbling over . . . innocuous . . . campus concealed carry."

". . . far too much John Boehner at work, here, . . ."

What do you mean by this and who are you referencing.

Chas.

[handog]

The poll results are tight i see. I presume that 99% of the voters here have a CHL. Most would agree that the element of surprise is a powerful advantage and would keep their firearm concealed regardless of open carry or not. Perhaps the fear of exposure has determined their vote? Wouldn't it be nice to lift some of the Government imposed paranoia. We have enough to worry about with the covert terrorists whom infiltrate our communities. On the other hand, collage students are just as likely to be hit by lightening as being murdered in class. How many collage students smoke cigarets, drink Alcohol which cause far more deaths than school shootings. I can empathize with them as well given the Media circus we have.
I would like to see both passed. We simply have an order of importance issue.

[Charles L. Cotton]

The poll results are tight i see. I presume that 99% of the voters here have a CHL. Most would agree that the element of surprise is a powerful advantage and would keep their firearm concealed regardless of open carry or not. Perhaps the fear of exposure has determined their vote? Wouldn't it be nice to lift some of the Government imposed paranoia. We have enough to worry about the covert terrorists we are all surrounded by daily. On the other hand, collage students are just as likely to be hit by lightening as being murdered in class. How many collage students smoke cigarets, drink Alcohol which cause far more deaths than school shootings. I can empathize with them as well given the Media circus we have.
I would like to see both passed. We simply have an order of importance issue.

The poll ran about 2 to 1 in favor of campus-carry for a while, but then it tightened up. Someone sent me an email that someone on OpenCarry.org posted a link to the poll and asked people to come here and vote for open-carry. I don't know how much of an impact that had, if any, but it certainly calls the results into question.

Chas.

[steveincowtown]

The poll results are tight i see. I presume that 99% of the voters here have a CHL. Most would agree that the element of surprise is a powerful advantage and would keep their firearm concealed regardless of open carry or not. Perhaps the fear of exposure has determined their vote? Wouldn't it be nice to lift some of the Government imposed paranoia. We have enough to worry about the covert terrorists we are all surrounded by daily. On the other hand, collage students are just as likely to be hit by lightening as being murdered in class. How many collage students smoke cigarets, drink Alcohol which cause far more deaths than school shootings. I can empathize with them as well given the Media circus we have.
I would like to see both passed. We simply have an order of importance issue.

The poll ran about 2 to 1 in favor of campus-carry for a while, but then it tightened up. Someone sent me an email that someone on OpenCarry.org posted a link to the poll and asked people to come here and vote for open-carry. I don't know how much of an impact that had, if any, but it certainly calls the results into question.

Chas.

As the board administrator aren't you able to see who voted for what and how long they have been members, and how involved there are in this forum (# of post etc)?

Seems likes this might give a window into whether there was an onslaught of oc.com folks.

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm new to these forums and have only posted in one topic previously, but I have something to say. I believe it's rational, intelligent, and well-considered, and I assume those qualities aren't frowned upon in a gun rights discussion, so here goes:

The drive to lift any real or habitual restriction on open carry in Texas is not a drive to secure new rights; it is not an attempt to carve out a parochial, niche allowance that benefits a fairly small minority of Texas residents. The drive to reestablish the right to open carry a handgun in Texas is a drive to declare the fundamental liberty to which Man is entitled. While I understand and appreciate the motivations, strategic or otherwise, of those who favor endorsing campus carry over open carry, I don't understand how such a relatively-inconsequential microcosm of gun rights has gained such traction among those who strive toward greater liberty for gun owners. I fear there is far too much John Boehner at work, here, and we've just seen what happens when his ilk are allowed to hold sway. Regardless, the state of Texas has a golden opportunity, particularly in these emotion-driven times, to assert the primacy of liberty on the national stage by taking an unshakable stand in favor of open carry. Such a stand would do infinitely more for the promotion of gun rights than would quibbling over something so relatively innocuous as campus concealed carry. If we are to think strategically, should we not think strategically?

I'm not going to argue any of that with you, but I would just say then to answer the poll accordingly, so that Charles can gather as much data as he can.

[Charles L. Cotton]

The poll results are tight i see. I presume that 99% of the voters here have a CHL. Most would agree that the element of surprise is a powerful advantage and would keep their firearm concealed regardless of open carry or not. Perhaps the fear of exposure has determined their vote? Wouldn't it be nice to lift some of the Government imposed paranoia. We have enough to worry about the covert terrorists we are all surrounded by daily. On the other hand, collage students are just as likely to be hit by lightening as being murdered in class. How many collage students smoke cigarets, drink Alcohol which cause far more deaths than school shootings. I can empathize with them as well given the Media circus we have.
I would like to see both passed. We simply have an order of importance issue.

The poll ran about 2 to 1 in favor of campus-carry for a while, but then it tightened up. Someone sent me an email that someone on OpenCarry.org posted a link to the poll and asked people to come here and vote for open-carry. I don't know how much of an impact that had, if any, but it certainly calls the results into question.

Chas.

As the board administrator aren't you able to see who voted for what and how long they have been members, and how involved there are in this forum (# of post etc)?

Seems likes this might give a window into whether there was an onslaught of oc.com folks.

No, I can't see how anyone voted.

Chas.

[AEA]

You can see if you have had a influx of new members registering during the time that is was increased for OC?

That could tell us if outside influences were possibly present?

Might take some legwork to come up with the answer.
Cross reference new members with poll times and then see if those new members have made any posts (if not any post, you can assume they came just to hit the poll).

[Charles L. Cotton]

You can see if you have had a influx of new members registering during the time that is was increased for OC?

That could tell us if outside influences were possibly present?

Might take some legwork to come up with the answer.
Cross reference new members with poll times and then see if those new members have made any posts (if not any post, you can assume they came just to hit the poll).

I don't know when the OCDO post was made, but I can't see when votes were cast anyway, so it wouldn't help.

Chas.

[AEA]

Oh well, just a thought.....

Anyway Charles, what is your thoughts on the results so far, notwithstanding the possibility of a skewed result?

In other words, do you still see it as one or the other and not both?

Interesting post brought my attention to something........
CHL's are exempt from school zones & parking lots (just cannot carry inside buildings). I know that this does not help the Students/Teachers unless they are CHL's, but it isn't like we have to stay 1/2 mile away either.

My thought, regardless of the Poll, is that Campus Carry will pass easily with a wide margin. So, why not carry on with Open Carry as well and carry everywhere LEO's can with CHL?

Let's use the opposition's own tactic, "never let a disaster go to waste" (or something like that).

The Feds filed 10 anti-gun bills on the first day of the 2013 Legislature. Surely Texas can spend a little time on two that really make a difference to our security in Texas?

[TrueFlog]

I suppose it's too late to cast my vote officially, but I'll voice my preference for passing Campus Carry this session. I strongly support Open Carry rights, but Campus Carry takes precedence for several reasons. As someone said above, allowing CC would have the greater immediate impact on self-defense and personal safety. Also, I think CC has the better chance of passing. We were oh-so-close last session, let's strike while we can and close this issue out. Finally, I feel that the backers of CC deserve it more. CC has been before the legislature longer than OC, and its supporters have put in alot more work. It's only fair that they should see the fruits of their labor first.

Let's all get behind Campus Carry this session and do everything we can to help get it passed. Once that's done, we can move on to Open Carry and try to get that passed next session. It's important that we all work together and not bicker or pick sides over our pet issues.

And for the record, I'm almost never on a college campus, so CC is of little benefit to me personally. OC would make more of an impact in my day-to-day life. But it's not about what's best for just me - it's about doing what's right for all the citizens of our State.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Oh well, just a thought.....

Anyway Charles, what is your thoughts on the results so far, notwithstanding the possibility of a skewed result?

The results are what they are. I have no opinion other than the desire of OpenCarry.org posters to skew the results.

In other words, do you still see it as one or the other and not both?

You are drinking the OpenCarry.org Koolaid. (Just kidding.) I never said it was one or the other. The poll was designed to get a feel for Forum Members' priority between two different bills. Rep. Lavender is going to file his open-carry bill and we have his assurances that it will not amend TPC §30.06. If it's a good bill, then I'm sure NRA and TSRA will support it.

My thought, regardless of the Poll, is that Campus Carry will pass easily with a wide margin.

On what do you base this opinion? I wish I shared your optimism, but I have no evidence that we are looking at a cake-walk. The opposition will be just as widespread and vigorous as it has been for the last two sessions. Remember, we need 21 votes in the Senate to bring the bill to the floor. Many hours have already been spent trying to get those votes. Then we have the House Homeland Security and Public Safety Committee and the House Calendars Committee that a campus-carry bill must navigate. Camps-carry is far from a done deal.

So, why not carry on with Open Carry as well and carry everywhere LEO's can with CHL?

Campus-carry will be a fight, so you're talking about 3 high-profile bills, not two. Plus, reduced off-limits for CHL's hasn't been filed yet, so that should give you some hint as to the battle that bill faces.

The Feds filed 10 anti-gun bills on the first day of the 2013 Legislature. Surely Texas can spend a little time on two that really make a difference to our security in Texas?

The federal bills have nothing to do with Texas. Plus, see how many are passed. The only two bills that will make a difference to our security in Texas is campus-carry and reduced off-limits areas for CHL's. Open-carry will not increase security in the slightest. Arguing otherwise is not only inaccurate, it is counterproductive.

Chas.

[psijac]

The only way to balance it out would be for someone to post on Students for Concealed Carry, asking for votes

[pcgizzmo]

The only two bills that will make a difference to our security in Texas is campus-carry and reduced off-limits areas for CHL's. Open-carry will not increase security in the slightest. Arguing otherwise is not only inaccurate, it is counterproductive.

Chas.

Charles, I've seen something that someone mentioned (maybe you I don't remember for sure) about getting rid of or modifying 46.035 Failure to Conceal. Is this still a possibility and if so, could it be rolled into one of the existing bills or would it need to be on it's own?

Thanks...

[ErnieP]

Reduced off-limits would be the one most inclined to enhance personal safety for the greatest number of people. Open Carry, while a statement would not have as great an impact, and in light of CT shooting, and Federal Action, Campus Carry is going to be a real hot spot for legislators to deal with this session.

[sunny beach]

The only way to balance it out would be for someone to post on Students for Concealed Carry, asking for votes

Who said we didn't?