I'm almost hoping Open Carry fails… here's why

[Scott in Houston]

If it passes, there will be a 30.07 clause much like the current 30.06 allowing businesses to post.

The reason this all scares me is because many businesses do not post 30.06 because they are generally clueless that people are actually carrying in their business.
They are not posted as a result of their just living in denial and/or not thinking about it.

But…
So many would tell you verbally, if you were dumb enough to ask, whether carrying was ok on in their business. They would almost all say "no". And if it was made readily apparent that many patrons carried concealed, they would post 30.06.

Well, 30.07 brings attention to this. As soon as a business sees an open carry and then decides to post 30.07, the odds are, they'll research and post both. Therefore, I would be willing to bet that we see more "gun free" (aka death) zones arise.


Where am I wrong? I know there have to many who disagree, so please let me know. I'd love to not feel this way.

[mojo84]

I disagree with this premise.

So many would tell you verbally, if you were dumb enough to ask, whether carrying was ok on in their business. They would almost all say "no". And if it was made readily apparent that many patrons carried concealed, they would post 30.06.

I think business owners are more aware than you give them credit. I do think there may be some that feel less comfortable initially with open carry and will post 30.07. I do not anticipate it being widespread as I do not think open carrying will be that common.

[oljames3]

In anticipating how the world will change should an open carry bill pass this session, we should look to the experiences of neighboring states.

I spent 10 days in Pueblo, CO, last August with my BTA90 9mm on my hip the entire time. I visited Walmart, Radio Shack, hotels, Walgreens, auto parts stores, various fast food and casual dining establishements in Pueblo. I saw no signs prohibiting guns. The single negative comment was from a northerner attending the same event that I was attending.

I don't claim to know the future, but I do beleive we can gain insight by observing the states surrounding Texas.

If it passes, there will be a 30.07 clause much like the current 30.06 allowing businesses to post.

The reason this all scares me is because many businesses do not post 30.06 because they are generally clueless that people are actually carrying in their business.
They are not posted as a result of their just living in denial and/or not thinking about it.

But…
So many would tell you verbally, if you were dumb enough to ask, whether carrying was ok on in their business. They would almost all say "no". And if it was made readily apparent that many patrons carried concealed, they would post 30.06.

Well, 30.07 brings attention to this. As soon as a business sees an open carry and then decides to post 30.07, the odds are, they'll research and post both. Therefore, I would be willing to bet that we see more "gun free" (aka death) zones arise.


Where am I wrong? I know there have to many who disagree, so please let me know. I'd love to not feel this way.

[txcharvel]

If it passes, there will be a 30.07 clause much like the current 30.06 allowing businesses to post.

The reason this all scares me is because many businesses do not post 30.06 because they are generally clueless that people are actually carrying in their business.
They are not posted as a result of their just living in denial and/or not thinking about it.

But…
So many would tell you verbally, if you were dumb enough to ask, whether carrying was ok on in their business. They would almost all say "no". And if it was made readily apparent that many patrons carried concealed, they would post 30.06.

Well, 30.07 brings attention to this. As soon as a business sees an open carry and then decides to post 30.07, the odds are, they'll research and post both. Therefore, I would be willing to bet that we see more "gun free" (aka death) zones arise.


Where am I wrong? I know there have to many who disagree, so please let me know. I'd love to not feel this way.

[txcharvel]

I disagree with this premise.

So many would tell you verbally, if you were dumb enough to ask, whether carrying was ok on in their business. They would almost all say "no". And if it was made readily apparent that many patrons carried concealed, they would post 30.06.

I think business owners are more aware than you give them credit. I do think there may be some that feel less comfortable initially with open carry and will post 30.07. I do not anticipate it being widespread as I do not think open carrying will be that common.

I somewhat disagree...I certainly don't think business owners are that aware, they are just uninformed. Most are simply focused on running their busines and making it a success, they don't think about guns unless they are they are an enthusiast.

I also don't think open carry will be that prevelant down the road. In the beginning however, I'm pretty sure that as soon as the socially conscious OCT guys start exercising their new found right, we'll see a lot new signs up prohibiting both open and concealed carry.

[Scott in Houston]

I disagree with this premise.

So many would tell you verbally, if you were dumb enough to ask, whether carrying was ok on in their business. They would almost all say "no". And if it was made readily apparent that many patrons carried concealed, they would post 30.06.

I think business owners are more aware than you give them credit. I do think there may be some that feel less comfortable initially with open carry and will post 30.07. I do not anticipate it being widespread as I do not think open carrying will be that common.

I somewhat disagree...I certainly don't think business owners are that aware, they are just uninformed. Most are simply focused on running their busines and making it a success, they don't think about guns unless they are they are an enthusiast.

I also don't think open carry will be that prevelant down the road. In the beginning however, I'm pretty sure that as soon as the socially conscious OCT guys start exercising their new found right, we'll see a lot new signs up prohibiting both open and concealed carry.

I think we're of like minds.

I do believe over time, it won't be that prevalent, but I think in the short term, you'll see a lot of this. So many of the OCT people do enough damage to our cause as it is now. If this passes, I can see so many making their point even further in their effort to 'get the public used to guns' in public. I cannot imagine a scenario where more 30.06 signs don't pop up. I don't care much about the 30.07, because I'll likely never open carry, but I bet seeing a 30.07 without a 30.06 nearby will be very rare.

[SRH78]

I am sure we will see a few new 30.06 signs but not many. For one, I doubt very many people will actually carry openly. For another, concealed carry and 30.06 have been around about 20 years now. Thanks to OCTC, it has also been all over the news already. I think most businesses owners have seen that it is nothing to worry about so why put up that big ugly sign and risk rocking the boat? Bigger businesses are definitely aware of 30.06 but very few post.

The few that do go up will simply show us which businesses we don't want to support.

[jmra]

Glass half empty?
Maybe you would prefer that gun buster signs were sufficient notice to prevent OC in order to deter attention to 30.06? Obviously we would all prefer that signs had no legal standing but it is clear that is not going to happen anytime soon in Texas.
I personally believe most businesses will just deal with it verbally as customers complain. One big sign on the door is already ugly. I have to wonder how many will put up 2 big ugly signs. Of course we could get lucky and businesses take down their 30.06 sign and replace it with a 30.07 sign.

[Pawpaw]

Right now, very few businesses want to post the "big ugly sign" to prevent CC. I expect even fewer will want to post two "big ugly signs" to prevent CC and OC.
Those few that do post both have just made it easier to spot who doesn't want my money.

[treadlightly]

I'd say a lot of the problems will come from Texas having been out of step and repressive. I use the word "repressive" in conversational tones, not Watkins-esque, merely acknowledging Texas has for most of its history denied certain rights accepted in the mainstream of other states. I remember my Dad being nervous traveling through Arizona in the 60's. He saw a bunch of folks on the street with guns and said, "There couldn't be that many police officers off duty here."

We were all born and raised in Texas and didn't get out much. We were used to the state rounding up anyone who carried a gun, and acclimated to no legal means for armed self defense. For us, seeing guns on hips all over the place was jarring. Actually, for the record, I thought it was cool.

We're going to see some adjustment if open carry passes. The problem is not the right to bear, or with freedom, The problem will be that when Texas banned handguns it pulled back a pendulum. Now that it's being released, it's going to swing before it settles down.

The baby step return to freedom is not to my liking but it probably limits those problems. We got concealed carry and proved that an armed, law-abiding subset of society is polite and well-behaved.

Constitutional carry is the only correct alternative, but I've waited this long, I can wait longer. Stepping through licensed carry will ease handguns onto main street through competent, responsible citizens. Things could be worse, and the adjustment problems will be a repression hangover, not a problem with civil rights.

But I draw the line at badges for handgun carry. Unless it's got a secret decoder hidden on the back, I don't need no steeenkin' badges!

[Scott in Houston]

I'd say a lot of the problems will come from Texas having been out of step and repressive. I use the word "repressive" in conversational tones, not Watkins-esque, merely acknowledging Texas has for most of its history denied certain rights accepted in the mainstream of other states. I remember my Dad being nervous traveling through Arizona in the 60's. He saw a bunch of folks on the street with guns and said, "There couldn't be that many police officers off duty here."

We were all born and raised in Texas and didn't get out much. We were used to the state rounding up anyone who carried a gun, and acclimated to no legal means for armed self defense. For us, seeing guns on hips all over the place was jarring. Actually, for the record, I thought it was cool.

We're going to see some adjustment if open carry passes. The problem is not the right to bear, or with freedom, The problem will be that when Texas banned handguns it pulled back a pendulum. Now that it's being released, it's going to swing before it settles down.

The baby step return to freedom is not to my liking but it probably limits those problems. We got concealed carry and proved that an armed, law-abiding subset of society is polite and well-behaved.

Constitutional carry is the only correct alternative, but I've waited this long, I can wait longer. Stepping through licensed carry will ease handguns onto main street through competent, responsible citizens. Things could be worse, and the adjustment problems will be a repression hangover, not a problem with civil rights.

But I draw the line at badges for handgun carry. Unless it's got a secret decoder hidden on the back, I don't need no steeenkin' badges!

Good points here and many of the above posts.

As for the secret decoder, I thought they all had that. Mine does. It said, "Be Sure To Drink Your Ovaltine".

[jminn1]

I have to agree with treadlightly. Very well said, sir!

[baldeagle]

I don't think looking to the experience of other states is quite as instructive as some do. A lot depends on the culture and attitudes of the state you live in, and they are certainly not the same. Texas is particularly unique in that regard, so I wouldn't want to go out on a limb and predict what will happen.

[txcharvel]

Something I get really tired of hearing is that if a business puts up a 30.06 sign then we'll know not to support them. This makes sense if you only want to go from your house to Wal Mart and back. Maybe HEB if you're lucky enough to have one close you.

I want to be able to go about my business without being hindered. If I want to buy a cheap bottle of wine and dessert at Whole Foods to take home to my wife, I want to do it without having to disarm. I carry to protect myself and my family if needed. I don't want to be bothered by a 30.06 sign any more than I want to be robbed in their parking lot. I don't want them in my business anymore than I want to be in their business other than to purchase their fairly priced prodcuts on occasion.

I get the argument, I just don't see the logic in resigning myself to that line of thought.

The simple fact that we'll have to wait to see proven is that open carry will result in more 30.06 signs. Even if it's one, it's one too many.

[TVGuy]

Something I get really tired of hearing is that if a business puts up a 30.06 sign then we'll know not to support them. This makes sense if you only want to go from your house to Wal Mart and back. Maybe HEB if you're lucky enough to have one close you.

I want to be able to go about my business without being hindered. If I want to buy a cheap bottle of wine and dessert at Whole Foods to take home to my wife, I want to do it without having to disarm. I carry to protect myself and my family if needed. I don't want to be bothered by a 30.06 sign any more than I want to be robbed in their parking lot. I don't want them in my business anymore than I want to be in their business other than to purchase their fairly priced prodcuts on occasion.

I get the argument, I just don't see the logic in resigning myself to that line of thought.

The simple fact that we'll have to wait to see proven is that open carry will result in more 30.06 signs. Even if it's one, it's one too many.

Your argument lost validity with the underlined portions.

Seriously - I would say there are plenty of options to visit that are CHL friendly other than Wal-Mart. I carry every day and haven't been in a Wal-Mart in years.