HB 560 - Holy Grail?

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KLB
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Re: HB 560 - Holy Grail?

Postby KLB » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:00 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:The bottom line is you think the Second Amendment prohibits the requiring of a license to carry a firearm. The SCOTUS has not held this to be true and it has strongly indicated in Heller that licensing is constitutional.

Chas.


Absolutely. Some people refuse to face the obvious. Wesley Snipes continued to believe he need not pay income taxes despite all evidence to the contrary. That cost him three years in prison. Acting on the irrational conviction that no license is needed for carrying will work out no better and perhaps a lot worse than Wesley's problem did for him.


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Re: HB 560 - Holy Grail?

Postby ninjabread » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:50 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:LEOs often do not issue a citation when drivers don't have their driver's license on their person. They do so because they are able to quickly confirm they have a license with a computer check. A provisional vote is not confirmed as an actual vote until and unless the person is ultimately determined to be properly registered as a voter.

If a LEO can quickly confirm someone has a license to drive with a computer check then confirming someone has a license to carry should be just as easy. I know driving without a license in ones possession is "punishable by a fine not to exceed $200" and I think the penalty for carrying a concealed handgun without the license in ones possession should have a similar punishment, not a threat of jail time. Being properly licensed but forgetting your ID at home should not lead to a class A misdemeanor, and definitely should not escalate to a felony of the third degree in a grocery store.
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Re: HB 560 - Holy Grail?

Postby WTR » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:14 pm

ninjabread wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:LEOs often do not issue a citation when drivers don't have their driver's license on their person. They do so because they are able to quickly confirm they have a license with a computer check. A provisional vote is not confirmed as an actual vote until and unless the person is ultimately determined to be properly registered as a voter.

If a LEO can quickly confirm someone has a license to drive with a computer check then confirming someone has a license to carry should be just as easy. I know driving without a license in ones possession is "punishable by a fine not to exceed $200" and I think the penalty for carrying a concealed handgun without the license in ones possession should have a similar punishment, not a threat of jail time. Being properly licensed but forgetting your ID at home should not lead to a class A misdemeanor, and definitely should not escalate to a felony of the third degree in a grocery store.



I live on the TX, NM border in NM. I have a TX non resident license. I was hoping to move back to TX when I took my class. I have been stopped twice by the TX DPS, and gone through two check points by the El Paso Sherrifs Dept. They have not been alerted to the fact I have a TX CHL. They have always been supportive of my carrying. However , they were not aware of my license until I presented it.

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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: HB 560 - Holy Grail?

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:46 pm

ninjabread wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:LEOs often do not issue a citation when drivers don't have their driver's license on their person. They do so because they are able to quickly confirm they have a license with a computer check. A provisional vote is not confirmed as an actual vote until and unless the person is ultimately determined to be properly registered as a voter.

If a LEO can quickly confirm someone has a license to drive with a computer check then confirming someone has a license to carry should be just as easy. I know driving without a license in ones possession is "punishable by a fine not to exceed $200" and I think the penalty for carrying a concealed handgun without the license in ones possession should have a similar punishment, not a threat of jail time. Being properly licensed but forgetting your ID at home should not lead to a class A misdemeanor, and definitely should not escalate to a felony of the third degree in a grocery store.

In 21 years of CHL, I've never heard of a CHL/LTC being arrested because they forgot their wallet. Have you? If not, then why are you arguing about angels on heads of pins? BTW, you have now changed/dodged the issue twice because you have no valid response, so I'm through playing games.

Chas.
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nightmare69
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Re: HB 560 - Holy Grail?

Postby nightmare69 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:13 pm

ninjabread wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:LEOs often do not issue a citation when drivers don't have their driver's license on their person. They do so because they are able to quickly confirm they have a license with a computer check. A provisional vote is not confirmed as an actual vote until and unless the person is ultimately determined to be properly registered as a voter.

If a LEO can quickly confirm someone has a license to drive with a computer check then confirming someone has a license to carry should be just as easy. I know driving without a license in ones possession is "punishable by a fine not to exceed $200" and I think the penalty for carrying a concealed handgun without the license in ones possession should have a similar punishment, not a threat of jail time. Being properly licensed but forgetting your ID at home should not lead to a class A misdemeanor, and definitely should not escalate to a felony of the third degree in a grocery store.


It takes some digging usually by dispatch to confirm the violator has a LTC. I can only find if they have a DL by running their name on my computer. Just as long as you are honest I don't see a problem by simply forgetting your LTC.
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Re: HB 560 - Holy Grail?

Postby Ruark » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:39 pm

Well, your LTC is quickly available on SOME database. About 2 years ago, my wife and I went to a U.S. Air Force base as visitors. When we were checking in at the front gate office, the guy behind the counter took my driver's license, typed something into a computer and immediately said, "he's got a CHL."

(off-topic side note) when he said that, the other guard said "really?" and they both just chuckled. That was it. Nobody asked if I was carrying or anything; they gave us a temporary window sticker and we drove on into the base. Hmmmm.
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Re: HB 560 - Holy Grail?

Postby jmorris » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:11 pm

Ruark wrote:Well, your LTC is quickly available on SOME database. About 2 years ago, my wife and I went to a U.S. Air Force base as visitors. When we were checking in at the front gate office, the guy behind the counter took my driver's license, typed something into a computer and immediately said, "he's got a CHL."

(off-topic side note) when he said that, the other guard said "really?" and they both just chuckled. That was it. Nobody asked if I was carrying or anything; they gave us a temporary window sticker and we drove on into the base. Hmmmm.


Yes, happened to me when I forgot my badge. He looked at me and said "You're not carrying are you?" I actually said "It's in the truck" and then gave him a copy of the JA memo that said we were legal in the parking lot but not the building.
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Re: HB 560 - Holy Grail?

Postby cowhow » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:36 am

I kind of jumped in this conversation mid-stream, but if I forget my CHL and a LEO makes contact with me for a traffic violation with my firearm in my car (console, door, etc) what's the big deal? That's legal with or without a CHL.

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Re: HB 560 - Holy Grail?

Postby KLB » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:44 pm

Ruark wrote:Well, your LTC is quickly available on SOME database. About 2 years ago, my wife and I went to a U.S. Air Force base as visitors. When we were checking in at the front gate office, the guy behind the counter took my driver's license, typed something into a computer and immediately said, "he's got a CHL."


Indeed. Quite a few years ago, my brother, who had a CHL, was stopped for a traffic offense. Because he wasn't carrying, he didn't think he needed to inform the officer about his CHL. The officer became quite agitated when he discovered the CHL for himself. Luckily, all the officer did was give my brother a piece of his mind.

Perhaps ironically, my brother himself is now an LEO.

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Re: HB 560 - Holy Grail?

Postby Liberty » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:57 pm

KLB wrote:Indeed. Quite a few years ago, my brother, who had a CHL, was stopped for a traffic offense. Because he wasn't carrying, he didn't think he needed to inform the officer about his CHL. The officer became quite agitated when he discovered the CHL for himself. Luckily, all the officer did was give my brother a piece of his mind.

Perhaps ironically, my brother himself is now an LEO.

Your brother did nothing wrong.

The officer was wrong and out of line. We are only obligated to present our CHL/LTC when we are carrying. We do so to inform the officer that we may be carrying.
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Re: HB 560 - Holy Grail?

Postby mloamiller » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:29 pm

Liberty wrote:The officer was wrong and out of line. We are only obligated to present our CHL/LTC when we are carrying. We do so to inform the officer that we may be carrying.

In case someone was wondering:
GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE.
If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder’s person
when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display
identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder’s driver’s
license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license
holder’s handgun license.
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