HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

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TexAg08
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HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby TexAg08 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:24 pm

Is there anything in the works or being discussed about restricting an HOAs ability to post signage in common areas?


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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby mr1337 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:27 am

TexAg08 wrote:Is there anything in the works or being discussed about restricting an HOAs ability to post signage in common areas?


For HOA's owned by the home owners (mine is still owned by the planner but will be released to the residents when the community is complete) - you are also part owner of the common areas, so you should be able to carry "with effective consent of the owner."

Please note that I am not a lawyer.
Keep calm and carry.

Licensing (n.) - When government takes away your right to do something and sells it back to you.


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TexAg08
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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby TexAg08 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:46 am

That is my understanding as well, but currently it lies on the shoulders of the homeowners to fight it. Some HOAs believe they have the right to post signage in common areas since it's private property. It would be nice to have legislation state that HOAs do not have authority to place signs in common areas.

Or remove prohibited places in general.


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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby mr1337 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:47 am

TexAg08 wrote:That is my understanding as well, but currently it lies on the shoulders of the homeowners to fight it. Some HOAs believe they have the right to post signage in common areas since it's private property. It would be nice to have legislation state that HOAs do not have authority to place signs in common areas.

Or remove prohibited places in general.


Concealed is concealed.
Keep calm and carry.

Licensing (n.) - When government takes away your right to do something and sells it back to you.


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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby TexAg08 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:01 am

Yes, but I've always been one to take the law literally and follow. However, lately I've started viewing that mindset as futile since people/businesses/governments post signs improperly or have no desire to follow the law to the degree I do. So why should I abide strictly to the law and they don't?

Irregardless, it would be nice to see legislative language so that there is no criminal penalty for the LTC holder.


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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:12 am

TexAg08 wrote:That is my understanding as well, but currently it lies on the shoulders of the homeowners to fight it. Some HOAs believe they have the right to post signage in common areas since it's private property. It would be nice to have legislation state that HOAs do not have authority to place signs in common areas.

Or remove prohibited places in general.


Under current law, I think they could still post signs. The signs just wouldn't apply to anyone who owns the property in question, or to that person's guests (assuming the home owner would give their guests effective consent). The signs would then only apply to guests without effective consent, or to workers who might enter the common areas. Those people would have to get by with a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 or similar.

As far as what the law should be, I don't think we want to prohibit the posting of private property just because it is owned by multiple persons. What if all owners agree to prohibit carry? If my wife and I are the sole owners of our home, we should be able to post a 30.06 sign at our front door, if we want. Now if my wife decides to post a sign on the house that I also own, that sign should not apply to me or to anyone else that I give effective consent to carry.* This same principle applies to HOA common areas, just with more than one owner.

* The above might sound like an esoteric example, but a version of this actually happened at my house last Spring. We were having some work done by a contractor who is a friend of ours, and who carries. We don't actually have a 30.06 (or 30.07) sign, but my wife told him that she did not want any guns in the house, giving him effective notice. I then gave him effective consent by telling him that he could carry in my home whenever he wanted. IANAL, but I think he was legal to carry at that point.
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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby mr1337 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:15 am

TexAg08 wrote:Yes, but I've always been one to take the law literally and follow. However, lately I've started viewing that mindset as futile since people/businesses/governments post signs improperly or have no desire to follow the law to the degree I do. So why should I abide strictly to the law and they don't?

Irregardless, it would be nice to see legislative language so that there is no criminal penalty for the LTC holder.


When I say concealed is concealed, I don't mean "break the law as long as no one knows."

I mean: If it's not against the law to carry, carry. It's not illegal for them to post the sign, but as an owner of the HOA, you are not affected by it. "Concealed is concealed" here is more to avoid the hassle.

If you want to cover your behind, pay for an hour of a lawyer's time and ask.
Keep calm and carry.

Licensing (n.) - When government takes away your right to do something and sells it back to you.

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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:42 pm

Here is a lengthy discussion: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=79357&hilit=HOA+Chas.

Short answer: In a Condo, everyone owns a share of the common area. Outside condo projects, it depends on whether the HOA corporation owns it, or if all home owners own a share of the common area. If the HOA owns it, the can control it.

Chas.
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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby TexAg08 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:20 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Here is a lengthy discussion: http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... t=HOA+Chas.

Short answer: In a Condo, everyone owns a share of the common area. Outside condo projects, it depends on whether the HOA corporation owns it, or if all home owners own a share of the common area. If the HOA owns it, the can control it.

Chas.


I've read through that thread, but I'll admit that it was difficult to follow in regards to HOAs vs condo associations.

My short story is that my HOA has recently put up 06/07 signs (without community input) at our common area pool and clubhouse. The pool and attached clubhouse is gated entry, but the clubhouse is where HOA meeting take place. The land is owned by the HOA and the HOA is incorporated, but I have trouble understanding how something my dues pay to upkeep is now off limits to me unless I relinquish my rights to carry. If it was any other business I would take my money elsewhere.

Just to add some info, I am currently determining if annual dues go towards any improvements or upkeep of this area, or if that money comes from the purchase of an additional keycard pass to provide access to the gate. If the latter is the case, then I have no issue, I just won't attend any HOA meetings in the future.


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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby SewTexas » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:28 pm

1. if you don't attend, you really don't have any say. note, I was on our board for several years.

2. we were told by our lawyers that we could easily put 07 signs but not 06 signs, I told my board that neither were going up anywhere if I was on the board. Luckily, my board agreed with me. Heaven only knows what will happen with out current board.
~Tracy
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir


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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby TexAg08 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:43 pm

SewTexas wrote:1. if you don't attend, you really don't have any say. note, I was on our board for several years.

2. we were told by our lawyers that we could easily put 07 signs but not 06 signs, I told my board that neither were going up anywhere if I was on the board. Luckily, my board agreed with me. Heaven only knows what will happen with out current board.


We haven't attended this past year due to work and a new addition to the family, but we attended meetings prior to that. My wife and I both would like to attend meetings, but if signs stay up, then no attending.

Just curious as to the reason your lawyer gave you for not being able to post the 06, but keeping the 07. I have already contacted our president about a compromise of leaving the 07 but removing the 06, since I realize some people have an irrational fear of seeing a gun.


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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby SewTexas » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:51 pm

TexAg08 wrote:
SewTexas wrote:1. if you don't attend, you really don't have any say. note, I was on our board for several years.

2. we were told by our lawyers that we could easily put 07 signs but not 06 signs, I told my board that neither were going up anywhere if I was on the board. Luckily, my board agreed with me. Heaven only knows what will happen with out current board.


We haven't attended this past year due to work and a new addition to the family, but we attended meetings prior to that. My wife and I both would like to attend meetings, but if signs stay up, then no attending.

Just curious as to the reason your lawyer gave you for not being able to post the 06, but keeping the 07. I have already contacted our president about a compromise of leaving the 07 but removing the 06, since I realize some people have an irrational fear of seeing a gun.



This was well over a year ago, so I'm working on foggy memory, but it was something along the lines of the 07 was basically saying "how" you carried, whereas the 06 was saying "if" you could carry. I thought that was a bunch of garbage myself.
~Tracy
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir


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Re: HOA's and 30.06/30.07 posting

Postby TexAg08 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:57 am

Just to update this thread, I have looked into all our HOAs documents and they state that all homeowners are members of The HOA, Inc. If that incorporated HOA owns the property of the common area (fenced and non fenced areas) then wouldn't members of that HOA have access just as if it were their own property? Being as our HOA is incorported, it's making it difficult to understand our rights vs a non incorporated one.


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