Concealed carry by school employees

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Abraham
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby Abraham » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:30 pm

apvonkanel,

Tell me if I have this right: You would like to see LTCers/school employees able to carry inside school, but you have many, many reservations about it?

Do I understand you correctly?

Or...?

Thanks!

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RogueUSMC
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby RogueUSMC » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:07 pm

Abraham wrote:apvonkanel,

Tell me if I have this right: You would like to see LTCers/school employees able to carry inside school, but you have many, many reservations about it?

Do I understand you correctly?

Or...?

Thanks!

That's about the gist of it I think...
A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights.
- Napoleon Bonaparte
PFC Paul E. Ison USMC 1916-2001


ninjabread
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby ninjabread » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:13 pm

Mxrdad wrote:Ninja, are you saying you are against school employees from legally carrying?

I don't think they should have any more or less restriction on carrying in schools than plumbers or grandfathers.
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

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RogueUSMC
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby RogueUSMC » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:12 am

ninjabread wrote:
Mxrdad wrote:Ninja, are you saying you are against school employees from legally carrying?

I don't think they should have any more or less restriction on carrying in schools than plumbers or grandfathers.

DING DING DING! *finger to nose*
A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights.
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Mxrdad
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby Mxrdad » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:41 am

Alright, alright,alright. Take it easy. :patriot: :lol: I had a "Senile" moment there. Now I think I need a comfort puppy. Where do those Libs keep them things? :smilelol5:
Finally woke up.......... Proud NRA Life member.
Proud member of TSRA as well.


NNT
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby NNT » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:28 pm

Utah can carry into schools, teachers can carry, and the school can't ask a teacher if they are carrying or not. They CANNOT leave it in their desk or whatever, basic safety practices or course. I don't recall hearing any issues that arise from it.

"As a permit holder, exactly, where can I carry or not carry a handgun?
The concealed firearm permit allows an individual to carry a firearm fully loaded and concealed. The permit also allows an individual to carry a firearm into public schools. Permit holders can not carry a firearm into federal or state restricted areas i.e. any airport secured area, federal facilities, courts, correctional & mental health facilities, law enforcement secured areas, a house of worship or private residence where notice given and/or posted, any secured area in which firearms are prohibited and notice posted, or otherwise prohibited by state of federal law."

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apvonkanel
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby apvonkanel » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:19 am

Abraham wrote:apvonkanel,

Tell me if I have this right: You would like to see LTCers/school employees able to carry inside school, but you have many, many reservations about it?

Do I understand you correctly?

Or...?

Thanks!


I would like school employed LTCers to be able to carry, but have reservations about about non-employees carrying. Although many people seem to be missing the point, it has nothing to do with whether or not non-employees will be safe, but everything to do with the fact that most non-employees don't know how to handle themselves in a school without effectively breaking the educational environment.
In the Navy I learned to love the Mossberg 590A1 and hate the Beretta M9

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Flightmare
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby Flightmare » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:33 am

apvonkanel wrote:
Abraham wrote:apvonkanel,

Tell me if I have this right: You would like to see LTCers/school employees able to carry inside school, but you have many, many reservations about it?

Do I understand you correctly?

Or...?

Thanks!


I would like school employed LTCers to be able to carry, but have reservations about about non-employees carrying. Although many people seem to be missing the point, it has nothing to do with whether or not non-employees will be safe, but everything to do with the fact that most non-employees don't know how to handle themselves in a school without effectively breaking the educational environment.


So your issue is not that non-employees would be carrying in the school, it's non-employees being in the school in general and "breaking the educational environment"?
Deplorable lunatic since 2016


Abraham
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby Abraham » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:02 am

apvonkanel,

Thank you for responding, but I'm still struggling with your explanation. It's still not clear to me...

Plus, what does "breaking the educational environment" mean?

That term is so ambiguous as to be meaningless...

Do you maintain that people who aren't educators, but have LTC's can't be trusted?

Please, if you can and will, speak a bit more plainly if you want to be understood.

Thanks!

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Jusme
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby Jusme » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:09 am

apvonkanel wrote:
Abraham wrote:apvonkanel,

Tell me if I have this right: You would like to see LTCers/school employees able to carry inside school, but you have many, many reservations about it?

Do I understand you correctly?

Or...?

Thanks!


I would like school employed LTCers to be able to carry, but have reservations about about non-employees carrying. Although many people seem to be missing the point, it has nothing to do with whether or not non-employees will be safe, but everything to do with the fact that most non-employees don't know how to handle themselves in a school without effectively breaking the educational environment.



If anyone, school employee, or non-school employee, has to use a gun to stop an attack, I fully believe the "educational environment" would be the least of anyone's concerns. I think that you have a bias toward the general public, based on a few incidences, and by saying that "most" non-school employees don't know how to handle themselves is painting with a very large brush. Picking only school employees, to be allowed to carry in schools, is tantamount to only allowing LEO to carry, in prohibited places. That is where we are now, with all of these things, and while school employees, may be trained to deal with the day to day activities, in a school, that doesn't mean that any other LTC holder should be excluded. It would be the same if someone put a sign on a restaurant saying all LTC holders who are "not" school employees may enter with their handguns, because school employees don't understand the intricacies of how this business operates. Public schools are just that "public" these people who you say are going to "break the educational environment" pay for that educational environment. JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


Abraham
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby Abraham » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:44 am

No gun toting LTC accoutered (I love that word, sounds like someone afflicted with cooties) educators will be allowed in my restaurant as they very well and quite probably will "break the restaurant environment" with their terrible table manners.

So there!


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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby twomillenium » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:19 pm

I worked in the public school system for 20+ years. I truly feel that the percentage of LTC holders that "break the educational environment" are less than the teachers that work there. Nothing against teachers, but there are too many teachers that teach because they have a certificate and it is a paycheck till something else comes around. More people homeschool their children because the are concerned with of the quality of education not received than they are concerned with the number of LTC holders that come on campus.
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jkurtz
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby jkurtz » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:26 pm

apvonkanel wrote:I would like school employed LTCers to be able to carry, but have reservations about about non-employees carrying. Although many people seem to be missing the point, it has nothing to do with whether or not non-employees will be safe, but everything to do with the fact that most non-employees don't know how to handle themselves in a school without effectively breaking the educational environment.


Maybe we should apply your logic to other locations. I think health care workers should be able to carry in all hospitals, but no one else. Other people just wouldn't know how to handle themselves in a health care facility in such a way as to not disturb patient therapies.


Abraham
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby Abraham » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:27 pm

twomillenium,

Do you "know" what "break the educational environment" defines as and is it a common term used by teachers/educators in general?

Or, is it, as I suspect, a form of gobbledegook double speak?

I fully appreciate some folks in education prefer fifty words when two will do, but then those outside education might actually understand them and for the educators, obfuscation is the preferred method of non-articulation.

jkurtz,

Wouldn't want to "break the patient therapy environment" would we...?


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Concealed carry by school employees

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:37 pm

apvonkanel wrote:
Abraham wrote:apvonkanel,

Tell me if I have this right: You would like to see LTCers/school employees able to carry inside school, but you have many, many reservations about it?

Do I understand you correctly?

Or...?

Thanks!


I would like school employed LTCers to be able to carry, but have reservations about about non-employees carrying. Although many people seem to be missing the point, it has nothing to do with whether or not non-employees will be safe, but everything to do with the fact that most non-employees don't know how to handle themselves in a school without effectively breaking the educational environment.


I don't know if it is your intent, but this response comes across as extremely elitist and condescending. It's a wonder y'all are able to get anything done with all of them thar students "breaking the educational environment". Maybe you should have an educational environment that is not quite so fragile in the first place.
Ding dong, the witch is dead


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