Murphy police very professional

[dihappy]

Unfortunately what is a person to do if asked, even in a polite and professional manor?

Would anyone get on the cops bad side and ask "why do u have to disarm me?

If things went south, and those two in the bimmer were BG's and decided they werent going to let the cops find the kilos of coke they had in the backseat. They could have pulled weapons and shot, and there you would have been , unarmed.

[nitrogen]

That's an excellent question.

I'd love some of the former or current LEO's in here to take a crack at this question:

How would you react if a citizen asked you, "Why are you disarming me?"
It seems like a perfectly valid question given THIS situation, but I could also see it backfiring.

What say you?

[srothstein]

That's an excellent question.

I'd love some of the former or current LEO's in here to take a crack at this question:

How would you react if a citizen asked you, "Why are you disarming me?"
It seems like a perfectly valid question given THIS situation, but I could also see it backfiring.

What say you?

Well, I guess I would be honest and tell him it is because I did not trust him. But then, I don't usually disarm people, so there would be some specific reason and I could refer to it.

I think you will find that the officers who do not generally disarm would be unable to answer this question, and the ones that do will say because that it is their policy to disarm everyone they come in contact with that they find with a weapon. They probably will not admit to just not trusting people, but it is what it boils down to. They might add something like "You won't need a weapon while I am here" or some other bull, but we all know what it will still boil down to.

[frankie_the_yankee]

I just figure that the ones who routinely disarm people would have a ready answer like, "For my safety and yours, sir." Any further debate at that point would likely put you in cuffs.

[CHL/LEO]

How would you react if a citizen asked you, "Why are you disarming me?"

I would explain exactly why I would be disarming them. I have never disarmed a CHL holder but if I felt the need to I would explain up front why I was.

That's no different than when I stop someone or issue them a citation. I explain the reason why they were stopped or why they're getting a ticket.

[NcongruNt]

Unfortunately what is a person to do if asked, even in a polite and professional manor?

Would anyone get on the cops bad side and ask "why do u have to disarm me?

If things went south, and those two in the bimmer were BG's and decided they werent going to let the cops find the kilos of coke they had in the backseat. They could have pulled weapons and shot, and there you would have been , unarmed.

If asked to disarm in a situation where it doesn't seem reasonable, I could see myself responding to a request to be disarmed with something along the lines of:

"If you believe it is necessary for your safety".

This does a couple of things... It serves as a reminder of the specifics of the law, and puts the answer back in his hands, along with a reminder of the limits of his authority. It also puts him in control of the answer to his own question, so you don't come off as defiant. If he insists after that, I'd comply without complaint. If I disagree with his actions, I can take it up with the administrative offices of whatever agency he belonged to and file a complaint about their policy at a later time. A traffic stop is not the place to argue.

I don't see any situation short of an accident where I am in need of serious medical help where I would need to be disarmed for my safety, so that's why I left out "my safety" in that statement.

In a minor accident situation or the scenario mentioned above, I'd probably state it more along the lines of "If you believe it is necessary for the safety of yourself or someone else here".

Just my view. Maybe I'm way off and I'd make an officer mad. I welcome opinions from any of you LEO folks.

[Rokyudai]

Re: Disarming

I don't think I'm going to challenge the officer whom I just called to act in official capacity and protect me. If he or she wants to 'feel safe' by holding onto my gun so be it. I don't feel criminalized or made to feel guilty as I know who I am and what I stand for. Nobody can make me feel a certain way, it's my choice to react or interpret others actions for myself.

I agree with those who choose to take it up after the fact in writing or a call to that station if somehow they felt it necessary to educate/complain. By the way, cops just love to be told when and how they should conduct themselves and there duties by nonLEO. Great track record there! (sarcasm). It is important to educate and spread a positive message about responsible citizens carrying handguns and to what extent that right is observed; but on the roadside, walking down the street, or in the middle of them operating in official capacity just doesn't seem like the right environment. Not conducive to open dialogue.

Just my opinion..before my coffee. I'm a bit grouchy and not sharp on sentence structure. or spelling for that matter....

[LedJedi]

Disarming a citizen who is behaving is unconstitutional. Furthermore, by doing so that police officer is taking full responsibility for my security. If the other suspect harms me in such a way that I would have been justified in using my weapon you better bet that police officer and his dept are going to be seeing my lawyer in court, as will any establishment I visit that disarms me via a 30.06 sign and the same circumstances occur.

That's not to say i don't have the utmost respect for police officers but disarming a citizen who is otherwise behaving is imo treating me like a villan. If I have to put my gun down I want a a full search of everyone on the scene before I disarm.

I realize Texas law thinks it gives LEO the right to disarm a CHL but Texas law does not trump the Bill of Rights. I may end up turning over my weapon simply because I don't want to get arrested or shot for refusing to do so but you better bet any leo that does that is going to get a polite earfull from me and possibly a call from my lawyer.

Disclaimer: I have nothing but the utmost respect for the LEO as a profession and the vast majority of individual officers I've met. The practice of disarming a law abiding citizen is what I have an issue with. And don't sing me that song about "for everyone's safety". When I accidentally shoot someone, then you can disarm me for safety reasons. Until that time the safest thing for everyone is for everybody to keep their guns exactly where they are.

Edit: I believe i'm going to have this little card printed up and in my wallet behind my license just in case I run into this situation.

Disarming Citizens Card:

{View Image} {Download printable PDF}

[frankie_the_yankee]

I don't agree that TX law violates the 2A, but I like the card anyway.

[nitrogen]

LedJedi: You sir, rock.

the problem here, is, the courts. The courts have been whittling away our constitutional rights in regards to what law enforcement can do for years.

Terry v. Ohio, Hollywood v. Mulligan (Seizure of vehicles of those accused, not convicted of crimes), etc.

I don't know if disarming a lawful CHL holder during a traffic stop has been ruled on via a court, but I can guess that a court will uphold the behavior of an officer disarming someone for whatever reason they want to.

[LedJedi]

LedJedi: You sir, rock.

the problem here, is, the courts. The courts have been whittling away our constitutional rights in regards to what law enforcement can do for years.

Thank you sir for your kind words.

However, i must respectfully disagree on one point. The fault is not with the courts. The fault is with every one of us reading this sentence right now. We tolerate what the courts do. We allow it. We don't have a hissy fit and protest in large numbers. We dont elect politicians that reflect what we truly feel. We dont get passionate about it if someone whittles away our freedoms. We just let it slip quietly into the night. Make your opinions known!

Write your elected officials. Tell them politely but very passionately what you think and tell them you expect them to represent your passion. Write your police departments and tell them exactly how you feel about the practice of disarming law abiding citizens who are minding their own business.

Start a petition in your town informing the police department that it's law abiding citizens who pay their salaries and for their patrol cars to make your streets safe to not appreciate being disarmed if they are not misbehaving.

Don't pass the buck of responsibility for changing what is going on in your community on to someone else. Draw a line in the sand directly in front of you and proclaim "the buck stops here".

Take an active role and do what you can to see that your rights are restored and protected. You personally can do that, even if it's something as small as making a small little card that forum geeks like me can print out and have with them in their wallets.

Even the smallest pebble still makes a wave.

[nitrogen]

Well, you make a great point; I can't argue with what you said.
Putting pressure on our elected officials pass laws to clarify rights we should already have would be a ideal way to fix the issue.

[LedJedi]

Well, you make a great point; I can't argue with what you said.
Putting pressure on our elected officials pass laws to clarify rights we should already have would be a ideal way to fix the issue.

:)... ok, i made the card... the rest is up to you :)

seriously. i know it sounded like I was railing on you. I honestly wasn't. Just don't want folks passing the buck :). Lord knows I've done it long enough myself.

[bwahahaha]

Unfortunately what is a person to do if asked, even in a polite and professional manor?

Would anyone get on the cops bad side and ask "why do u have to disarm me?

Yes. Not in those exact words, but yes.

You're effectively being told that you're untrustworthy and someone the LEO believes to be potentially violent.

It won't change the situation, but there's a remote chance that the LEO might behave more reasonably in the future. I'm not suggesting playing roadside lawyer (bad idea, obviously), but it's a pretty reasonable question, don't you think? Be diplomatic about it. There is a difference between respecting an LEO's authority and being obsequious.

I see a lot of threads here that suggest that officer so-and-so from the XYZ PD was "professional" or "courteous" just because he prefaced an otherwise offensive request with "please" or "if you wouldn't mind." Sometimes I think a more critical eye would be a good thing.