I need clarification...

[stevie_d_64]

An former co-worker (friend) of mine recently had an encounter with not a Law Enforcement officer, but a senior officer/manager at the company we both worked at...He still does,but I have since moved on to greener pastures...

The incident involved the manager observing the co-worker proceeding through an intersection where they co-worker reasonably determined the traffic signalling device was not functioning properly near the gate leading into the company property...

Technically, I was under the impression (and I stand to be corrected if I am wrong, no big deal) that you could proceed through an intersection "cautiously" if the traffic signal was not working properly or not at all...In my opinion, if you have come to a complete stop (per the intent of the signaling device and the law), and the signal does not allow you to proceed in a reasonable fashion, you could do so, but with extreme caution, without being penalized (if you are observed) if it is determined the signal is not operating properly...

I don't thinnk there are many Law Enforcement folks out there, no matter what their disposition is that would bust too many peoples chops about something like this if it worked out this way...

Now what happened to the co-worker is a separate issue, and one that is being addressed in a manner befitting the duties of the human resourses department at that company...The co-worker has been made to assume their job is on the line because of this perceived infraction, and that the senior officer of that company physically and verbally intimidated that co-worker on company property, for what transpired off company property and company time...

Needless to say, the senior officer did go to HR and pulled the employee's file, and that was discovered after the co-worker went to HR to inquire to the company policy regarding this abuse of authority within company property...

Knowing Texas is a right to work state, and that they can fire you for any reason, this to me is something that falls outside of those parameters...

And that even if the infraction was a violation of the law, a private citizen like this should not take it upon themselves ("civic duty" was the words used by the manager) to dress down someone using their authority in a private corporation to abuse a subordinate for this perceived infraction...

Just thought this might be an interesting issue to discuss...

[RPBrown]

If the event happened off company property and off the clock, it should be of no concern to the senior manager and (IANAL) I think, could be considered an infringment of his privacy.

However, you and I both know he can be fired for any reason and sounds like this senior manager is looking for an excuse to do so. Maybe he is scared of his job.

To keep it firearm related, at least he ddidn't have to include if he had a CHL or not in his HR packet.

[seamusTX]

I have no facts to offer, just a couple of opinions.

We are supposed to be free and rational people. Sitting at a stuck red light is slavish.

Threatening someone's job over a traffic infraction is right out of Dilbert. How many people get tickets each year? It must be 10% of the adult population.

This guy ought to consider changing jobs. There are a few companies that are not run by jerks.

RPBrown: Someone has no right to privacy for actions done on a public street. Very few areas are protected in the employment sphere, mainly religion, sex, age, national origin, and disability.

- Jim

[stevie_d_64]

Good points...

I am working with the co-worker to get him out of there...Its about all I can do...

The senior manager in question is not even a US citizen...I believe he is working to that goal, but thats beside the point I suppose..."It's my civic duty!" Give me a flippin' break!!! I would like to see this Mgr. do this to someone he doesn't suspect to work for the same company...That would be a statistic waiting to be jotted down!!!

All in all it is an absolute rediculous situation, and one that should not have been an issue at all from his (Sr. Mgr's) station in life...

Yeah, I agree, it is fortunate that we are not required or be penalized for not divulging our licencing situation to our employers...

[tbranch]

Technically, I was under the impression (and I stand to be corrected if I am wrong, no big deal) that you could proceed through an intersection "cautiously" if the traffic signal was not working properly or not at all...In my opinion, if you have come to a complete stop (per the intent of the signaling device and the law), and the signal does not allow you to proceed in a reasonable fashion, you could do so, but with extreme caution, without being penalized (if you are observed) if it is determined the signal is not operating properly...

I rode motorcycles for years and late at night the bike and I were not heavy enough to trip the signal. I would often ride through the light after waiting forever. I never had to answer to anyone for it, but I always wondered...

Sadly the HR department will side with the executive regardless of what the HR people think is right. I have some stories from that part of my life that would raise the hair on the back of your neck. I left all that behind and started my own business. We have a policy against the unlicensed possession of a weapon, but CHLs are welcome to carry while on-duty.

Tom

[dukalmighty]

Heres my 2 cents,if an LEO sees you go thru a redlight he can give you a ticket ,now if you can prove the light is stuck then i'm sure he would let you go.As far as the boss goes it's none of his business if it's off company property and time and you are not driving a company vehicle? I hate pressure activated light because a lot of time motorcycists or bicyclist won't activate them until a car pulls up.

[stevie_d_64]

I have agreed all along that this was none of the mgr's business...

Granted if he had made the approach from a concern for the safety of the employee, then it might have been discovered that there were some observances that were overlooked in this situation and nothing would have come from this...

Like I said, I would like to see this Senior Manager at this company try this tactic down a street close to the business called Cullen Blvd...Once will be enough...

[tomc]

Stevie;

You might have your friend just happen to mention in a related conversation at work about the situation that he may have to discuss it with his good friend, who happens to be a lawyer.

Tom

[stevie_d_64]

Stevie;

You might have your friend just happen to mention in a related conversation at work about the situation that he may have to discuss it with his good friend, who happens to be a lawyer.

Tom

You be a good friend there Tom!

He has made the proper approach to HR about this, and it appears to have fallen flat, and thatr if anything does happen, there will be nothing that can be done about it if they find a way to terminate his employment which will gloss over this straw that broke the camels back so to speak...So we'll deal with that when and if that happens...

But, to get this on a CHL kick, the friend of mine is waiting on his plastic to come in, and that during that encounter with the mgr in question, he did practice great restraint, and handle this like any encounter with someone that has an issue with one of us...Regardless if they are right or wrong in doing so...

I attribute this to his parusing this forum and asking questions to me, and where I am fuzzy on something I surely direct him, or ask someone I know that does have a good answer...

Thats the good thing about this place, and when something occurs in our life that is unreasonable, makes you mad, gets other people to be concerned about each other and reinforces all of our ideas about how we conduct ourselves in public, because we do have a responsibility to do our best to rise above most negative situations, and of course I always believe we do a great job in handling ourselves...

Thats how we promote CHL...We demonstrate with a very discrete manner our taking our self-defense seriously, and that encounters like this illustrate this very well...