concealed handgun in car

[ironsights]

I'm reading the traveling laws in Texas about concealed carry without a CHL, but I am still slightly confused. If I am walking from my home to the car or vise versa, am I to have it concealed(sorry question mark button does not work). Am I to announce to an officer that I am concealing a weapon in a traffic stop. If I bring it into work with me for an under the counter weapon am I to conceal it then.

Thank You

[Dan20703]

This is not legal advice but , from what I understand:
1. You do not have to conceal a weapon while on your own property;
2. You do not have to announce to an LEO that you have a concealed weapon in your car if you do not have your CHL; and
3. You can't bring your weapon into work with you unless you are the owner or you are in control of the business and have the owners authorization to carry in his place of business. (this one is what I understand least)

[boomerang]

Assuming you can legally possess the handgun (not a felon, etc.) you can have it on your premises or premises under your control in Texas. It can be loaded or unloaded, concealed or not, and no license is needed. Loaded guns are more useful and concealed guns attract less attention but it's your choice. Same thing if you're "directly en route" to your motor vehicle.

Inside your car, the law does require it to be concealed. If "the handgun is in plain view" that's a Class A misdemeanor. You are not required to spontaneously tell police there is a firearm in your vehicle, but you shouldn't lie if a LEO specifically asks.

If you eventually get a CHL, and a LEO asks for ID, you are required to display your ID and CHL if you're carrying a concealed handgun. It may be a good idea to display your CHL to police with your ID even if you're not armed, to avoid misunderstandings.

[ironsights]

thank you so much for your response!...greatly appreciated

[Target1911]

to add more........
If you live in an apt or must leave Your Personal Property or work property, to get to your vehicle, yes you can carry it concealed. But you had better be going DIRECTLY to or from your vehicle.

[Liko81]

This is not legal advice but , from what I understand:
1. You do not have to conceal a weapon while on your own property;
2. You do not have to announce to an LEO that you have a concealed weapon in your car if you do not have your CHL; and
3. You can't bring your weapon into work with you unless you are the owner or you are in control of the business and have the owners authorization to carry in his place of business. (this one is what I understand least)

1. Totally true, but remember that the public areas of an apartment complex are exactly that, even if you live in a gated community, so if you rent, you must conceal on your way out (it's as simple as putting the gun in an opaque shopping bag)

2. Also true, however if you somehow fail to conceal (opening the glovebox to get your insurance, moving your legs so he can see the weapon under your seat) you WILL get drawn on. It's best, if the officer asks you to do something that you feel may expose your gun, to notify him at that point.

3. Your workplace qualifies as "public". Thus, in the general case you cannot carry a firearm to work. The exceptions are when you are the owner or have their express consent; then property rights override this prohibition (you can carry as you like on your own land and may allow others to do the same). This gets really sticky when your business leases their office space, because your boss may give you authorization to carry, and if necessary to use, a handgun in the office, but the person holding the deed to the property, or their agent such as the management company, may ban handguns from the property and their decision overrides that of your management staff.

[NcongruNt]

This is not legal advice but , from what I understand:
1. You do not have to conceal a weapon while on your own property;
2. You do not have to announce to an LEO that you have a concealed weapon in your car if you do not have your CHL; and
3. You can't bring your weapon into work with you unless you are the owner or you are in control of the business and have the owners authorization to carry in his place of business. (this one is what I understand least)

1. Totally true, but remember that the public areas of an apartment complex are exactly that, even if you live in a gated community, so if you rent, you must conceal on your way out (it's as simple as putting the gun in an opaque shopping bag)

2. Also true, however if you somehow fail to conceal (opening the glovebox to get your insurance, moving your legs so he can see the weapon under your seat) you WILL get drawn on. It's best, if the officer asks you to do something that you feel may expose your gun, to notify him at that point.

3. Your workplace qualifies as "public". Thus, in the general case you cannot carry a firearm to work. The exceptions are when you are the owner or have their express consent; then property rights override this prohibition (you can carry as you like on your own land and may allow others to do the same). This gets really sticky when your business leases their office space, because your boss may give you authorization to carry, and if necessary to use, a handgun in the office, but the person holding the deed to the property, or their agent such as the management company, may ban handguns from the property and their decision overrides that of your management staff.

I believe you are incorrect here. There's no "permission" mentioned in the law. You need to own or control the property to carry there unlicensed. You can't "grant" permission for something that is against the law, even on your own property. Hunting or shooting on your property is a different situation, as they are defined as exceptions to 46.02, but you can't just give someone permission to carry on your property if they don't otherwise have a CHL or meet the other specific conditions of the law.


Below are the highlighted pertinent sections regarding people who are not LEOs or commissioned security guards. There is no mention of giving permission or consent to anyone to carry on your own premises. You must own or control the premises.

PC 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person
commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly
carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if
the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's
control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned
by the person or under the person's control.
(a-I) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, know-
ingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a
motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's
control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misde-
meanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section
71.Of.
(a2) For purposes of this section, "premises includes real property
and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regard-
less of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection,
"recreational vehicle means a motor vehicle primarily designed as
temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living
quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term
includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home,
and horse trailer with living quarters.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this
section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the
offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by
this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

PC $46.1 5. NONAPPLICABILTTY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do
not apply to:
(1) peace officers or special investigators under Article 2.122,
Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section prohibits a peace of-
ficer or special investigator from carrying a weapon in this state, in-
cluding in an establishment in this state serving the public, regardless
of whether the peace officer or special investigator is engaged in the
actual discharge of the officer's or investigator's duties while carrying
the weapon;
(2) parole officers and neither section prohibits an officer from
carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:
(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties while
carrying the weapon; and
(B) in compliance-with policies and procedures adopted by the
Texas Department of Criminal Justice regarding the possession of a
weapon by an officer while on duty;
(3) community supervision and corrections department officers
appointed or employed under Section 76.004, Government Code, and
neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a weapon in this state
if the officer is:
(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties while
carrying the weapon; and
(B) authorized to carry a weapon under Section 76.0051, Gov-
ernment Code;
(4) a judge or justice of a federal court, the supreme court, the
court of criminal appeals, a court of appeals, a district court, a criminal
district court, a constitutional county court, a statutory county court, a
justice court, or a municipal court who is licensed to carry a concealed
handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code; -
(5) an honorably retired peace officer or federal criminal investi-
gator who holds a certificate of proficiency issued under Section
1701.357, Occupations Code, and is carrying a photo identification
that:
(A) verifies that the officer honorably retired after not less than
15 years of service as a commissioned officer; and
(B) is issued by a state or local law enforcement agency;
(6) a district attorney, criminal district attorney, municipal attorney,
or county attorney who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code; or
[double amendments to same proviwon]
(7) *[as added by A ~ zoo7,80~,
S ~eg.,R.s., HB 1889.1 a bailiff designated by
an active judicial officer as defined by Section 411.201, Government
Code, who is:
(A) licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Chapter 411,
Government Code; and
(B) engaged in escorting the judicial officer.
(7) -*[as added by ~ c t s
~007, ~eg., R.s., HB zm.1 an assistant district
attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, or assistant county
attorney who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under
Subchapter H. Chapter 411, Government Code.
F;ple amendments to same provision]
(b) *[as added by ~ c t z007.8~h~eg., HB 1815.1 Section 46.02 does not
s R.s.,
apply to a person who:
(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the
armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001,
Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution;
(2) is traveling;
(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity
on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en
route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor
vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
(4) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas
Private Security Board, if:
(A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's
duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's place
of assignment;
(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and
(C) the weapon.is in plain view;
(5) IS canylng a concealed handgun and a valid license issued
under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a
concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person
is carrying;
(6) holds a security officer commission and a personal protection
officer authorization issued by the Texas Private Security Board and is
providing personal protection under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code;
or
(7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an
employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the
person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed
premises.
(b) *[as added by Acts 2007.8Oth Leg.. R.S., HB 2101.] SectiOn 46.02 does not
apply to a person who: .
(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the
armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001,
Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution;
(2) is on the person's own premises or 'premises under the
person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of the
owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility is to act
in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or property, in
which event the person must comply with Subdivision (5);
(3) is traveling;
(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other spotting activity
on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en
route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the weapon is
a type commonly used in the activity;
(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas
Private Security Board, if the person:
(A) is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as an
commissioned under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, or is traveling
to or from the person's place of assignment; and
(B) is either:
(i) wearing the officer's uniform and carrying the officer's
weapon in plain view; or
(ii) acting as a personal protection officer and carrying the
person's security officer commission and personal protection officer
authorization;
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued
under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a
concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person
is carrying; or
(7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an
employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the
person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed
premises.
(b) '[as added by ~ c t 2007, BOUI L ~ Q .R.s., HB w . 1 Section 46.02 does not
s ,
apply to a person who:
(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the
armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001,
Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution;
(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of the
owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility is to act
in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or property, in
which event the person must comply with Subdivision (5);
(3) is traveling;
(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity
on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en
route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the weapon is
a type commonly used in the activity;
(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas
Private Security Board, if:
(A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's
duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's place
of assignment;
(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and
(C) the weapon is in plain view;
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued
under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a
concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person
is carrying;
(7) holds a security officer commission and a personal protection
officer authorization issued by the Texas Private Security Board and is
providing personal protection under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code;
(8) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an
employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the
person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed
premises; or
(9) is a student in a law enforcement class engaging in an activity
required as part of the class, if the weapon is a type commonly used in
the activity and the person is:
(A) on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted;
or
(B) en route between those premises and the person's resi-
dence and is carrying the weapon unloaded.
(c) The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a club
does not apply to a noncommissioned security guard at an institution
of higher education who carries a nightstick or similar club, and who
has undergone 15 hours of training in the proper use of the club,
including at least seven hours of training in the use of the club for
nonviolent restraint. For the purposes of this subsection, "nonviolent
restraint" means the use of reasonable force, not intended and not
likely to inflict bodily injury.
(d) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a
firearm or carrying of a club do not apply to a public security officer
employed by the adjutant general under Section 431.029, Govemment
Code, in performance of official duties or while traveling to or from a
place of duty.
(e) The provisions of Section 46.02 the carrying of an
illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie knife or a
sword used in a historical demonstration or in a ceremony in which the
knife or sword is significant to the performance of the ceremony.
(t) Section 46.03(a)(6) does not apply to a person who possesses a
firearm or club while in the actual discharge of official duties as:
(1) a member of the armed forces or state military forces, as
defined by Section 431.001, Govemment Code; or
(2) an employee of a penal institution.
(g)'[repealad by Acts 2005,791h Leg., R.S., H.B. 2110, & SB 578.53.1
and
I
'(h) '[repealed by Acts 2007.80th Leg., RS. HB 1815,§3.]
'(i) '[repealed by Ads 2007.80th Leg., RS. HB 1815.53.)
(j) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a
handgun do not apply to an individual who carries a handgun as a
participant in a historical reenactment performed in accordance with
the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.

[ironsights]

What are the conditions of "Control'. Does control mean that you are there alone, or that you are the supervisor? What if you are contracted to do a job in a facility that is owned by the landlord but the business is owned by your contractor, and if in this case you are the owner of all tools, moneys and business contracts that happen here. If you are liable for everything that happens in your shift and owner of all materials then you are a contract laborer and responsible for all taxes, licenses and supplies. You are also responsible for any wrong doing that might result in penalties or prison while you perform your duties (you will go to jail not the man that hired your contract services). Then you would bring in private property to a previously public room making your private property and you can allow or deny access to anyone you feel. ...How would this be interpreted?

[NcongruNt]

What are the conditions of "Control'. Does control mean that you are there alone, or that you are the supervisor? What if you are contracted to do a job in a facility that is owned by the landlord but the business is owned by your contractor, and if in this case you are the owner of all tools, moneys and business contracts that happen here. If you are liable for everything that happens in your shift and owner of all materials then you are a contract laborer and responsible for all taxes, licenses and supplies. You are also responsible for any wrong doing that might result in penalties or prison while you perform your duties (you will go to jail not the man that hired your contract services). Then you would bring in private property to a previously public room making your private property and you can allow or deny access to anyone you feel. ...How would this be interpreted?

As far as I can tell, there is no strict definition of "control" in the TPC. When this is the case, it is the common definition. In an incident, it's up to the officer and his understanding of the law. When it goes to trial, it is up to the jury to decide the definition in that case. That is the case in a 2004 court opinion in a handgun/premise control case linked below:

http://www.14thcoa.courts.state.tx.us/o ... onID=80292

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, here is the definition (as a noun, as used in the TPC applicable here) of the word "control". Highlighted is the applicable definition to this situation.

n.

1. Authority or ability to manage or direct: lost control of the skidding car; the leaders in control of the country.

2.
a. One that controls; a controlling agent, device, or organization.
b. An instrument or set of instruments used to operate, regulate, or guide a machine or vehicle. Often used in the plural.
c. A standard of comparison for checking or verifying the results of an experiment.
d. An individual or group used as a standard of comparison in a control experiment.

3. A restraining device, measure, or limit; a curb: a control on prices; price controls.

4.
a. A standard of comparison for checking or verifying the results of an experiment.
b. An individual or group used as a standard of comparison in a control experiment.

5. An intelligence agent who supervises or instructs another agent.

6. A spirit presumed to speak or act through a medium.

It is commonly understood that control of a premises means that you are under authority to grant or restrict access to a location. In business, this is generally a manager or sole/senior employee on the premises.