Excellent TxDPS Contact South of Navasota

Most CHL/LEO contacts are positive, how about yours? Bloopers are fun, but no names please, if it will cause a LEO problems!

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mschadt
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Excellent TxDPS Contact South of Navasota

#1

Post by mschadt »

Well I got tagged just south of Navasota on Hwy 6 doing 7mph over the limit. I have to admit being the only car on the road at 1am I wasn’t paying too much attention to my speed. Apparently, that also made me stick out like a sore thumb as he put it.

I hit the flashers, pulled over, killed the radio, rolled down the windows on both sides, and turned on the dome light. He made his approach stopping to the center and rear of my truck, and announced himself as Officer So-and-So (not his real name :lol: ) with the Tx DPS and asked me to step out and join him at the rear of the truck.

As I got around to the rear he started asking for ID and the normal rig-a-ma-roll when I cut him off mid sentence and said “Before we go any further you need to know this…� and handed him my CHL and DL. At this point the subject immediately changed to “do have one on you NOW and if so, without touching it tell me where.� I told him I had a Sig 229 on my right hip, he seemed happy with that and started to carry-on, I had to cut him off again to tell him about the Smith&Wesson in my front pocket, and I figured while I had his attention I might as well tell him about the rifle in the cab, I also mentioned the knife in my back pocket, nether of which he really cared about.

He then asked if I worked in Law Enforcement, I replied I had considered it but decided I couldn’t put up with the number of idiots I’d be expected deal with on a daily basis. He chuckled and admitted to having seen his share of idiots and mentioned he was a supporter of the Right to Keep and Bare Arms; I think that statement was more of a hey I’m on your side lets be friends kind of thing.

At this point he explained he wanted to disarm me and told me go to the passenger side of the truck and set both guns on the front seat and then stand at the rear of the truck while he ran my info. As I unholstered the Sig he commended “Wow, that does conceal well� (I think he was surprised to see that much gun come out from under a t-shirt) and then quizzed me on the type and caliber and same with the Smith as I removed it from my pocket still in the holster. He took this opportunity to have me get my insurance from the glove box, being about a foot from where he had me put the guns I guess he wanted to supervise while got that, and I can’t blame him in the least for that.

As we stood behind the truck and chewed the fat talking guns and what not, the dispatcher came on the radio “BE ADVISED blah blah something� my ears perked up and the officers body language was sort of a well duh/no kiddin. Turns out that was them telling him I had a CHL. He then handed me my white slip and said I could reholster and be on my way. He hightailed it outa there before I could get the Sig back in the holster.


Lessons Learned:
  • I noticed while standing behind the truck that turning on the dome light also turns on the cargo lights which creates a glare on the back window and seems to make it even harder to see in. That may have been part of his reason for asking me to step out. Next time I'll use the map lights.

    In talking to him the CHL return only comes back if the dispatcher is doing their job, apparently it requires an extra step that gets skipped sometimes. He did say that the Grimes County dispatch has their stuff together and he was going through them because if needed backup was a lot closer than Bryan.

    Also when disarming someone he does one of three things:
    • Disarm the person and take the gun back to his cruiser and then return it at the end of the stop.

      Remove the mag and any rounds Lock the slide back and set them apart from one another and then have the person stand somewhere else. He did say striping the rounds from the mag was common but he typically didn’t go that far.

      Or in my case have them set the gun on the passenger seat and stand behind the vehicle.
    And if the person doesn't have a CHL he generally runs the serials on the guns.
All around it was an excellent experience.

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CHL Checks

#2

Post by Commander »

mschadt

To check for a CHL, a dispatcher only has to run a Texas Driver License inquiry. The DL file and the CHL file are two separate data bases; however, an inquiry into the DL file automatically checks the CHL file and generates a separate return if the individual holds a CHL. The 10- code 10-44 was established to notify the Trooper that the subject he just inquired on holds a CHL, no plain language return is necessary.

Does this Trooper has a standard policy of disarming all his CHL contacts I wonder? From your description of your contact, it seems as there was no reason to believe you were a threat.
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#3

Post by txinvestigator »

From an officer safety point of view, I believe the trooper puts himsef in more danger by giving you permission to access your weapon. If you plan on shooting him, he just gave it to you on a platter.

Bad form, IMO.
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#4

Post by KBCraig »

Standing at the rear of the vehicle (presumably between his vehicle and yours) is also not wise. Too many people have been killed or maimed that way.

There's something about flashing blue and red lights that seems to attract sleepy drunks... they tend to plow right into the back of the cruiser.

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#5

Post by mschadt »

I think disarming is part of his particular procedure. He commented about how when you know someone you just met is armed you can't help but to continuously look over your shoulder. Also the reason he had me disarm the way he did was because I was so upfront and open about the matter. I listed those in the order of his relaxation level I guess you could call it. He did point out that if I had wanted to do him in it would have already been done. He was about 5’8� maybe 120lbs. belt and all, and I’m 6’2� and 300lbs when I lie a little. He was quite young couldn’t have been on the job very long. I didn’t see which side of the car got in or out of he did go to the passenger side to get his ticket book, may have been with an FTO, but I don’t know for sure.

I think the real deal with disarming has to do with as their running you for warrants and what not if it comes back with a hit I for one would not want go up to an armed man tell him he was under arrest.

I should have been a little more clear about the behind the car thing. I pulled over to one of those areas between the entrance ramp and the hwy, I knew that at this time traffic would be light, in the 30 minutes or so that we were there only one car passed by and that was on the service road a good ways from the hwy. I realize now that spot might not have been the best place, but at the time I was thinking open triangle of ground with room to get away from the main lanes. Also he had me stand off to the side and did warn me about the drunks and told me to be on the look out and run for the grass if I needed (not really but I think it was implied).
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#6

Post by gigag04 »

Good ol nav. That's my hometown which I travel to regularly. More times than not if you're pulled over for speeding, it's a citation offense (generates revenue from my understanding of it).

That said, the Troopers are usually reasonable and I have been let go a few times (back in HS). Sounds like a semi-pleasant stop...I would hate to get disarmed.

As for the disarming in case of a warrant - just sit in your car and wait for backup to show up. I think the assumption is that if you have a CHL you probably don't have warrants out though.

-nick
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#7

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

I don't have real strong opinions about disarming CHL's as a routine policy, but I don't care for it. The statute is written in a manner to authorize the disarming of a CHL if “the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.� The intent of this provision was to 1) make it clear that having a CHL didn’t statutorily prevent a LEO from disarming the CHL; and 2) leave the decision to the discretion of the officer at the scene who can evaluate the situation.

In my opinion, a departmental policy to disarm every CHL violates both the express language and the spirit of the statute in at least two ways. (So does an individual officer's personal policy to disarm every CHL.) When a department establishes such a policy, it takes away an officer’s discretion to make the decision based upon the totality of the circumstances, as envisioned by the Legislature. Further, it cannot be seriously argued that disarming every CHL is “reasonably . . . necessary for the protection of . . .� anyone. Remember the statutory standard that must be met is “necessity.� It’s not sufficient for a department to argue that “it’s just good policy,� or “that’s just the way we do it,� or “things can get ugly in a traffic stop.�

I posted something about a DPS traffic stop http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... isarm+chas where a very nice trooper disarmed me, I suspect because his FTO told him to do so. That’s the only time I’ve ever been disarmed and I have to admit I did find it just a tad insulting, though I wasn’t mad about it. Individual LEO’s and departments can say it’s nothing personal and that’s it’s just policy all they want, but that doesn’t change the fact that someone must feel you are a threat, or they wouldn’t disarm you. The fact that most LEO’s don’t even bat an eye at your CHL, much less disarm you, adds to the impact when someone does take your gun.

Again, this isn’t a big issue with me; in fact, it’s more a matter of mutual respect. Perhaps my opinion is just a product of my age and the “code of honor� by which I was raised.

Regards,
Chas.

In case anyone is interested, here is the relevant statute:


§ 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder. Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, § 10.01(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997.

Edited to correct link.
Last edited by Charles L. Cotton on Fri May 19, 2006 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#8

Post by Diode »

Not to steal the thread but it would be interesting to know just how many people get disarmed durring a traffic stop. The couple of LEO's I hang out with say they don't as a rule unless something makes them uneasy.

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#9

Post by Chris »

txinvestigator wrote:From an officer safety point of view, I believe the trooper puts himsef in more danger by giving you permission to access your weapon. If you plan on shooting him, he just gave it to you on a platter.

Bad form, IMO.
ditto. i can draw quicker than you can if you're sitting in the car with a holstered weapon. troopers aren't the 'cream of the crop' anymore though, so it doesn't surprise me.

i have never disarmed a CHL on a traffic stop. i also don't make it a habit to have people get out of the car either.

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#10

Post by txinvestigator »

Chris wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:From an officer safety point of view, I believe the trooper puts himsef in more danger by giving you permission to access your weapon. If you plan on shooting him, he just gave it to you on a platter.

Bad form, IMO.
troopers aren't the 'cream of the crop' anymore though,.
ouch!!! lol
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#11

Post by jbirds1210 »

I was disarmed last year in Lufkin by the Lufkin PD on a traffic stop while my wife was driving. I agree with most of you guys that it did not make me angry, but was a bit insulting. The FTO and his cadet both liked my gun and told me that I was carrying "very effective" ammunition. It was not a terrible experience, but seemed a bit dangerous for him to stand on the side of the freeway unloading my gun and magazine. I guess the guys have to do what makes them feel safe...it was an overall pleasant experience for me....my wife did not care for the ticket.

My wife made the comment to the tune of, "be sure and call your new gun buddy when it comes time to pay this ticket" :shock:

My wife and I wrote a very friendly letter to the PD about how professional the officer and cadet were. I think we are the only folks in the world that get a fine and thank the officer for it! I have done this on more than one occasion :???: It is only fair to write for positive experiences if you plan on complaining about the negative ones!

I got a good laugh and she got defensive driving....
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#12

Post by Pickpocket »

About the part were the officer had you step out of the vehicle -

That could be because he felt it was safer than standing next to the car, but this decision is as much a part of an officer's standard procedure as choosing to disarm someone. Many officers will have you step out of the vehicle right off the bat because it accomplishes a couple of things. Having you get out and walk to the back of the car give the officer a chance to see whether or not you seem incapacitated at all. It also gets you away from where things can possibly be hidden.
All in all, it's just one of those things that's up to the individual officer. Some do it, some don't, some only do it when they're about to arrest you.

I actually prefer to have an officer ask me to exit the vehicle.. I don't like to sit there while someone stands over me.
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#13

Post by KBCraig »

Pickpocket wrote:I actually prefer to have an officer ask me to exit the vehicle.. I don't like to sit there while someone stands over me.
I absolutely agree. But if there are multiple occupants in the vehicle, it's understandable for the officer to want to keep them in one area where he can see them, instead of dealing with the driver while who-knows-what is going on in the car.

I'll say this about officers who have an SOP of disarming CHLs: they are exceeding their authority under the law. The law specifically says that LEOs may disarm a CHL when the officer feels the license holder may be a danger to himself, the officer, or others.

If the CHL does nothing to cause the officer to believe there is a danger, then disarming the CHL is beyond the officer's legal authority.

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#14

Post by flintknapper »

txinvestigator wrote:From an officer safety point of view, I believe the trooper puts himsef in more danger by giving you permission to access your weapon. If you plan on shooting him, he just gave it to you on a platter.

Bad form, IMO.


Agree 100%.
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asked to step out and disarming

#15

Post by switch »

I think DPS is more likely to have you get out of the car. They are normally a long way form anywhere and no back-up. They do not look forward to a high speed pursuit on 2 lane roads.

In the city, you have the hazard of other traffic, if you run, he has backup handy and you have traffic jams to worry about.

I have been disarmed three times, once was early in '96 and the officer was young, had been in a shootout and we were all trying to adjust to the new law. Once, I was in a wreck and the LEO asked me to leave it in the car (unfortunately, i forgot about my boot gun). :cry:

The last time was a domestic situation.
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