CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby jubal » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:21 pm

My old man taught me to never show a weapon unless it was already firing. Though the outcome was favorable in this circumstance, if the aggressor was armed it could have turned out differently. If he is armed the best way to get him to start shooting is to display your weapon.

Impressive self restraint, all in all. Glad it worked out ok.
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby Excaliber » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:49 am

jubal wrote:My old man taught me to never show a weapon unless it was already firing. Though the outcome was favorable in this circumstance, if the aggressor was armed it could have turned out differently. If he is armed the best way to get him to start shooting is to display your weapon.

Impressive self restraint, all in all. Glad it worked out ok.


Your dad's rule has some exceptions which he may not have fully explained.

Showing your weapon to an attacker is also the best way to keep the BG from drawing or using his.

In my opinion the OP used good judgment with a partial weapon display that in fact stopped a rapidly escalating incident from becoming violent. In this case his action was both justified and successful.

I find it hard to argue with lawful action that produces the best possible result.
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby schufflerbot » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:22 pm

wow - just read this... outstanding job on all counts, sir. thanks for being an upstanding CHL holder, anything less just makes the rest of us look bad.
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby Deltaboy » Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:36 pm

[quote="dihappy"]Im glad things worked out but i have an obervation/question.

Im not so sure your threat of deadly force was justified as he was still in his vehicle.

Showing your handgun was in fact a threat of deadly force, and im not sure it was justified in that situation.

Heck im not even sure if you would have been justified in shooting an unarmed man walking toward you.

Id like to hear some opinions on this.

heres something i found online:

"The use of deadly force may be justified only to defend against force, or the threat of force of nearly equally severity, and is not justifiable unless the defendant reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself/herself) against death or serious bodily harm."

[quote]

They tell you in Class about differances in Force a 250 pound man vs a 125 pound man is a differance enough to justify deadly force to secure the 125 pound mans life. 3-1 Man vs Woman etc. He did right and I am glad he didn't have to shoot the Boneheaded Man.


I guess if this is true, then the jury would have to be convinced that shooting the man was the only way to prevent death or serious bodily harm.
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby Txgi1son » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am

Thank you for this post and the questions and commentary.
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby n5wd » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:03 am

Deltaboy wrote:"The use of deadly force may be justified only to defend against force, or the threat of force of nearly equally severity, and is not justifiable unless the defendant reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself/herself) against death or serious bodily harm."

They tell you in Class about differances in Force a 250 pound man vs a 125 pound man is a differance enough to justify deadly force to secure the 125 pound mans life. 3-1 Man vs Woman etc. He did right and I am glad he didn't have to shoot the Boneheaded Man.


In this case, the disparity of force would be from a 40-year versus a 60-year old. All things being equal, which one do you think would have the advantage?

To the OP: glad things worked out the way they did. While you seem to have done everything right, there was probably a little bit of luck involved that the driver wasn't up on meth or PCP, and was still thinking somewhat rationally. Kudos!
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby DarkSide » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:52 am

I would not have pulled my weapon. Its a last resort thing life Death not had my hand on it; Id had my hand on my peeper spay from wall mart they are only 10 bucks. as soon as he was yelling id be on my cell phone calling it in phone in one hand pepper spay in the other getting in my car.. Cops are coming they will most likely leave or be there irate when the cops get there. I call in strange stuff looks better on you if you have Stop them. Gun is a last resort. You shoot a unarmed man its a problem. He has a wife or a mom are some one that knows a LEOs it wont be cool. Prob some LEO kid. If he was yelling at me id get in the car lock the doors. He cant touch you in the car. he gets out yelling I'm calling 911 he has a gun or knife, then I'm Drawing. My mom yells at me my Drill instructor yells at me no pain in yelling. Pull last. Think safety 1st. I look at it like this you can Run you can hide and still survive. If that guy would have called you in crying you pulled your gun. Be your MR post man. Better he don't even know what happens till the trigger is pulled.
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby gringo pistolero » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:45 am

DarkSide wrote:I would not have pulled my weapon. Its a last resort thing life Death not had my hand on it; Id had my hand on my peeper spay from wall mart they are only 10 bucks. as soon as he was yelling id be on my cell phone calling it in phone in one hand pepper spay in the other getting in my car

What hand are you using to unlock the car and open the door?
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby JP171 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:20 pm

dihappy wrote:Im glad things worked out but i have an obervation/question.

Im not so sure your threat of deadly force was justified as he was still in his vehicle.

Showing your handgun was in fact a threat of deadly force, and im not sure it was justified in that situation.

Heck im not even sure if you would have been justified in shooting an unarmed man walking toward you.

Id like to hear some opinions on this.

heres something i found online:

"The use of deadly force may be justified only to defend against force, or the threat of force of nearly equally severity, and is not justifiable unless the defendant reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself/herself) against death or serious bodily harm."

I guess if this is true, then the jury would have to be convinced that shooting the man was the only way to prevent death or serious bodily harm.



Actually under Texas Law, the mere production of a weapon is NOT deadly force, if the purpose of the production was to cause apprehension or the belief that legal deadly force would be used if necessary, so before you speak read the law. the OP did exactly what he should have, however the LEO stuffing his knife and firearm in the glove box was inappropriate, it should have been returned to the OP so that he could holster and cover it and not be resposible for unlawful display due to having to return it to proper carry configuration because the LEO wanted to remain safe from an armed "civilian" just like them
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby johnson0317 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:28 pm

gringo pistolero wrote:
DarkSide wrote:I would not have pulled my weapon. Its a last resort thing life Death not had my hand on it; Id had my hand on my peeper spay from wall mart they are only 10 bucks. as soon as he was yelling id be on my cell phone calling it in phone in one hand pepper spay in the other getting in my car

What hand are you using to unlock the car and open the door?

Please read more carefully before making such off-hand comments! :rules:

You will notice the poster is using "peeper spray" which is available from Walmart for only 10 bucks. Such spray is famous for its tagline, "When you need to protect yourself in the blink of an eye". You wear it like a pair of glasses. You have to be careful when you come up on a cute girl because you don't want to accidentally wink at her. A good dose of peeper spray is not a way to get her out on a date.

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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby Keith B » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:35 pm

johnson0317 wrote:
gringo pistolero wrote:
DarkSide wrote:I would not have pulled my weapon. Its a last resort thing life Death not had my hand on it; Id had my hand on my peeper spay from wall mart they are only 10 bucks. as soon as he was yelling id be on my cell phone calling it in phone in one hand pepper spay in the other getting in my car

What hand are you using to unlock the car and open the door?

Please read more carefully before making such off-hand comments! :rules:

You will notice the poster is using "peeper spray" which is available from Walmart for only 10 bucks. Such spray is famous for its tagline, "When you need to protect yourself in the blink of an eye". You wear it like a pair of glasses. You have to be careful when you come up on a cute girl because you don't want to accidentally wink at her. A good dose of peeper spray is not a way to get her out on a date.

RJ


I thought peeper spray was what you used on Peeping Tom's.
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby apostate » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:40 pm

Jeepers Creepers, I oughta get some peeper
spray.
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby The Annoyed Man » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:50 pm

DarkSide wrote:I would not have pulled my weapon. Its a last resort thing life Death not had my hand on it; Id had my hand on my peeper spay from wall mart they are only 10 bucks.

apostate wrote:Jeepers Creepers, I oughta get some peeper
spray.

Stole the words right out of my mouth.....except I'd say, "jeepers creepers, where'd DarkSide get his peepers?"
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby baldeagle » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:39 am

dihappy wrote:Im glad things worked out but i have an obervation/question.

Im not so sure your threat of deadly force was justified as he was still in his vehicle.

Showing your handgun was in fact a threat of deadly force, and im not sure it was justified in that situation.

Heck im not even sure if you would have been justified in shooting an unarmed man walking toward you.

Id like to hear some opinions on this.

heres something i found online:

"The use of deadly force may be justified only to defend against force, or the threat of force of nearly equally severity, and is not justifiable unless the defendant reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself/herself) against death or serious bodily harm."

I guess if this is true, then the jury would have to be convinced that shooting the man was the only way to prevent death or serious bodily harm.

The OP reported "You know what, I think I'll just beat you up you little jerk (not exactly what was said, but can't post that language here)". That is sufficient provocation to display your weapon as a warning.
Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force. (emphasis mine)

Followed up by his response, "That depends entirely on what you do next". internetguy's display of his weapon fits the law's intent perfectly and resulted in the desired outcome.

This is textbook lawful behavior. That's why the cops treated him with respect. They knew he had done the right thing and demonstrated restraint in a tense situation.

It just doesn't get any better than that.
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Re: CHL Incident- North Dallas PD- Great Guys

Postby kP380 » Sat May 05, 2012 8:41 am

internetguy wrote:He asked if I was carrying anything else, to which I responded calmly that I have a tactical knife on a clip in my other front pocket. He politely asked me to return my hands to my car and he pulled it from my pocket and placed it next to my gun on the hood of my car.


Internetguy, may I ask what kind of tactical knife you were carrying? When I saw tactical knife on a clip I assumed TDI?
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