TX Residents with out of state CHL

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TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby dev_null » Mon May 28, 2012 1:21 pm

Anyone here that's a TX resident been stopped while carrying, who only had an out of state permit (recognized by TX)? How did the LEO react? Any problems?

I have Texas residency, DL, insurance, etc., but my permit is from AZ since I don't yet have a TX CHL. Just wondering whether to expect lengthy discussions on the side of the road, or a cheerful "Here's your ticket, carry on."

(Not that I plan on getting stopped, but you never know.)

ETA:
Let me clarify, if I can:

1. AZ does not distinguish between in-state and out-of-state applicants. My AZ permit was applied-for from, and issued to, my TX residence. It is valid for the next few years.

2. I'm not talking about MPA per se. I'm talking about handing the officer my TX DL and an AZ CHP.

(3. My reasons for not yet having a TX CHP are not relevant to the question, other than the fact that they have nothing to do with any criminal record or other legal disbarment for getting one.)

Hope this helps narrow the question...
Last edited by dev_null on Tue May 29, 2012 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby The Annoyed Man » Mon May 28, 2012 1:37 pm

dev_null wrote:....but my permit is from AZ since I don't yet have a TX CHL.

Not sure how to answer your question because of the above phrase.

Are you a recent transplant from Arizona to Texas?

If so, how long have you been here?

If you are an Arizona transplant, did you ever update your Arizona carry license to "non-resident" status?

If you've been here more than 30 days and you are now a Texas resident, and you have not updated your Arizona carry license to "non-resident" status, then I believe that your Arizona license is no longer valid and you cannot legally carry a concealed handgun in Texas except under the authority—and limitations—of MPA.

Many of us have Texas CHLs AND some other state's non-resident permit. I have both a resident CHL and a non-resident Utah CFP. And some of us have only a non-resident permit from another state, such as a non-resident Florida license. But in ALL cases, your license from whatever issuing state must reflect your legal residency status here in Texas—as either a resident, or non-resident. In other words, if you are a Texas resident, your out of state license must be a non-resident license.

Also, be aware that some states which used to issue non-resident licenses pretty regularly either have, or may in the future require non-residents to possess a resident license from their state of residence before they can be issued a non-resident license from the state in question. Utah recently passed such a law, and it is no longer possible for Texas residents to obtain a non-resident Utah license unless they also hold a Texas resident CHL.

.....at least that is how my aging brain processes these things lately.....
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby JustMe » Mon May 28, 2012 1:43 pm

and the question would also be--Why Not? Is there some reason you can't meet the requirements for a Texas CHL? If it has only been a short period of time it's not as big a deal--you are working on it, taking class, waiting for app to be processed, etc. But if it is an extended period of time.......
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby gringo pistolero » Mon May 28, 2012 1:46 pm

dev_null wrote:Anyone here that's a TX resident been stopped while carrying, who only had an out of state permit (recognized by TX)? How did the LEO react? Any problems?

I have Texas residency, DL, insurance, etc., but my permit is from AZ since I don't yet have a TX CHL. Just wondering whether to expect lengthy discussions on the side of the road, or a cheerful "Here's your ticket, carry on."

(Not that I plan on getting stopped, but you never know.)

There's no need for a Texas CHL in that circumstance. You're covered by MPA in your car, whether you're a native Texan, a new Texan, or a visitor.

Welcome to Texas. :txflag:
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby The Annoyed Man » Mon May 28, 2012 1:53 pm

gringo pistolero wrote:
dev_null wrote:Anyone here that's a TX resident been stopped while carrying, who only had an out of state permit (recognized by TX)? How did the LEO react? Any problems?

I have Texas residency, DL, insurance, etc., but my permit is from AZ since I don't yet have a TX CHL. Just wondering whether to expect lengthy discussions on the side of the road, or a cheerful "Here's your ticket, carry on."

(Not that I plan on getting stopped, but you never know.)

There's no need for a Texas CHL in that circumstance. You're covered by MPA in your car, whether you're a native Texan, a new Texan, or a visitor.

Welcome to Texas. :txflag:

If his AZ carry license is still valid, then MPA won't apply any more than it would for a valid CHL holder. If his AZ carry license is expired, then MPA applies.....along with its limitations.
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby Reserve161 » Mon May 28, 2012 2:11 pm

Can you "pick and choose" whether you are covered by MPA or CHL when you have a valid CHL?
I think I agree with TAM (as I read your post above, sir) that the CHL supersedes the MPA and
you are both "held to the higher standard" and "accorded the higher privileges" if you have your valid CHL.

I guess it is really up to the courts to decide although I can not afford to be the test case for anything...
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby gringo pistolero » Mon May 28, 2012 2:21 pm

Reading 46.02 would quickly answer the question for anyone who cares about the law.
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby speedsix » Mon May 28, 2012 4:20 pm

gringo pistolero wrote:Reading 46.02 would quickly answer the question for anyone who cares about the law.



...46.02 doesn't address the OP's question at all..it says nothing about the CHL...either Tx or another state's...for anyone who cares about the law...

...Arizona issues licenses to qualified U.S. citizens on a shall issue basis...and automatically recognizes other states' carry permits...for a 5-year term...the Traveler's Guide doesn't make a distinction between resident or non-resident licenses...if AZ issued it to the OP...it is good for 5 years...and is recognized by TX...though questions might be asked...I see nothing to say it becomes void if an AZ resident moves, and no mention of a "non-resident" license...
...a quick search of AZ's concealed carry laws would nail that down for the OP...but it's not mentioned in the Traveler's Guide...


...amongst these FAQs from AZ website...one says another state's permit is valid in AZ till it expires...no need to immediately get an AZ permit when moving there...one says in response to the question does AZ issue a non-resident a permit that AZ issues a permit to an AZ resident or any other qualified U.S. citizen...no mention of a non-resident permit as opposed to a resident permit...they seem one and the same...there MIGHT be something in the AZ law about changing the address on the permit within 30 days as in TX law...but that can be searched out by the OP in AZ law...

http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concealed ... stions/#22


...TX and AZ don't reciprocate under a written agreement...they reciprocate under both states' unilateral reciprocation policies...
Last edited by speedsix on Mon May 28, 2012 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby Jumping Frog » Mon May 28, 2012 4:31 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:If you've been here more than 30 days and you are now a Texas resident, and you have not updated your Arizona carry license to "non-resident" status, then I believe that your Arizona license is no longer valid and you cannot legally carry a concealed handgun in Texas except under the authority—and limitations—of MPA.

Many of us have Texas CHLs AND some other state's non-resident permit. I have both a resident CHL and a non-resident Utah CFP. And some of us have only a non-resident permit from another state, such as a non-resident Florida license. But in ALL cases, your license from whatever issuing state must reflect your legal residency status here in Texas—as either a resident, or non-resident. In other words, if you are a Texas resident, your out of state license must be a non-resident license.

Cite the statute that supports your assertion, please.

I don't believe that is accurate. Arizona will issue licenses to both residents and non-residents, but there is no provision in their law to create a different class of Concealed Weapons Permit based upon residency. Similarly, the license is valid until revoked, suspended, or expired. There is no provision in their law to revoke a license for failure to update the residential address (R13-9-601. Suspension and Revocation). Finally, unless notified in writing that the AZ licensed was suspended or revoked, it remains valid.

Absent the actual AZ-TX reciprocity agreement specifying limitations to license recognition based upon becoming a Texas resident, I see no legal means to state the OP's license is "no longer valid". The actual AZ-TX reciprocity agreement does not seem to be available online at either state's website.
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby tacticool » Mon May 28, 2012 6:20 pm

speedsix wrote:
gringo pistolero wrote:Reading 46.02 would quickly answer the question for anyone who cares about the law.



...46.02 doesn't address the OP's question at all..it says nothing about the CHL...either Tx or another state's...for anyone who cares about the law...

That's because a CHL is not needed to carry in your car, rendering Reserve161's "pick and choose" question moot.
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby RoyGBiv » Mon May 28, 2012 6:26 pm

I handed a Southlake cop my FL CHL and TX DL a few yeras ago. .... No problem.

I only recently bothered to get my TX CHL because I started traveling to CO more frequently and CO will only recognize an out of state licence if your DL and CHL are issued by the same state. TX does not yet have this restriction.
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby speedsix » Mon May 28, 2012 6:43 pm

tacticool wrote:
speedsix wrote:
gringo pistolero wrote:Reading 46.02 would quickly answer the question for anyone who cares about the law.



...46.02 doesn't address the OP's question at all..it says nothing about the CHL...either Tx or another state's...for anyone who cares about the law...

That's because a CHL is not needed to carry in your car, rendering Reserve161's "pick and choose" question moot.



...incorrect...Reserve 161's question also involved CHL...and is not covered in 46.02...and for a CHL holder...we're bound by the CHL rules...we can't ignore the CHL laws if we have one...as has been covered extensively elsewhere...and is clearly stated in Tx GC 411.205...
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby tacticool » Mon May 28, 2012 7:01 pm

According to 46.02, he's legal to carry under MPA whether or not he has a CHL, the state that issued the CHL, or his state of residence. However, I admit it's true that the question whether or not a cop hassles him depends whether the cop is a competent professional or a halfwitted bully. The good news is Texas seems to have a lot fewer of the latter type compared to some neighboring states.
Last edited by tacticool on Mon May 28, 2012 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby speedsix » Mon May 28, 2012 7:04 pm

[quote="tacticool"]According to 46.02, he's legal to carry under MPA whether or not he has a CHL, the state that issued the CHL, or his state of residence. However, I admit it's true that the question whether or not a cop hassles him depends whether the cop is a competent professional or a halfwitted bully. The good news is Texas seems to have a lot fewer of the latter type compared to some neighboring states.
Last edited by tacticool on Mon May 28, 2012 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total. "


...both the OP and Reserve161 have CHLs...and are carrying under the CHL if stopped...not MPA...as the cited law states...regardless of which quality of cop stops him...according to the law governing those who are "...license holders..."...having a CHL...when you read the law...someone carrying in a car who has a CHL is NOT carrying under MPA...the law is the final answer...
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Re: TX Residents with out of state CHL

Postby hillfighter » Mon May 28, 2012 7:47 pm

dev_null wrote:Anyone here that's a TX resident been stopped while carrying, who only had an out of state permit (recognized by TX)? How did the LEO react? Any problems?

No problems in the Hill Country. Might be different inside Austin city limits.
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