Pulled over in OK

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Pulled over in OK

Postby SavageMythology » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:37 pm

A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I were driving down US 69 through Oklahoma on our way back to DFW after a family vacation in Branson. My wife was driving, and I was in the passenger seat (yes, it's an important part of the story). My M&P9c was in the passenger side door next to me (completely hidden from sight).

As we were passing through one of the numerous zones where the speed limit drops from 65 to 45 in a matter of a few hundred yards :grumble, my wife (and the general flow of traffic) was a little slow on the braking and we ended being the one Mr. Policeman singled out for a ticket. I knew that OK has reciprocity with TX, so I wasn't concerned about the legality of having my gun, castle laws aside. What I was not entirely sure about, though, was whether or not it would be better for me to present my CHL to the officer when he approached the car to ask my wife for her license and proof of insurance. I'll admit that I had failed to read up on the proper legal procedure for that in OK since (extremely poor excuse warning) I've not gotten a speeding ticket in almost 10 years. Since I drive most of the time, it didn't really enter my mind. :banghead:

Since I didn't have enough time to jump on my phone and look up the applicable laws, I decided to go what I thought would be the safe route and show the officer my CHL. He took my license, asked me if I had a weapon in the car and where it was, then handed my license back to me and said, "Ok, that's good enough."

That was it. He gave my wife the citation and we were free to go. No getting out of the car, no asking for the weapon, etc. So, let me ask all of you who read this a question: Was it necessary (or simply advisable, or not advisable) for me to show my CHL to the officer in this situation?
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Pulled over in OK

Postby Teamless » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:47 pm

According to www.handgunlaw.us and checking the Oklahoma laws, it states that that you need to inform the officer.
However, in a bit more investigation, it is similar to Texas, as when asked for ID, then you have to show.

So your question
SavageMythology wrote:Was it necessary (or simply advisable, or not advisable) for me to show my CHL to the officer in this situation?
I have to answer with, if you were in the passenger seat, did he actually ask you for ID, or while he was talking to your wife (the driver) did you open up about it?
If he asked you for ID, then YES, you needed to show the CHL.
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Re: Pulled over in OK

Postby AEA » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:52 pm

Legally (Texas Law - which is what your License is issued under).......

If you are carrying and a LEO ASKS for your ID, you are required to show BOTH your TXDL and your CHL. If you are not carrying, you are not required to show your CHL (but most of us do anyway).

There has been a change in TX law that removes the penalty for NOT showing your CHL to a LEO, but that does not go over well with TX LEO's and I would bet it would not be very welcome with OK LEO's as well. Most all of us show our CHL with the DL whether we are armed or not. Most of the LEO's appreciate it.

If the OK LEO did not ask you for ID, then why would you even open your mouth? He had no reason to even talk to you.

If, while communicating to your wife he asked her "are there any weapons in the car" then she could have replied in the affirmative and then his communication with you would be necessary.

Had it been me....I would have sit there with my mouth shut until such time that I was addressed. Then I would have done what you did and present both the DL and CHL.
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Re: Pulled over in OK

Postby Jumping Frog » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:59 pm

AEA wrote:Legally (Texas Law - which is what your License is issued under).......

Texas law is 100% meaningless in Oklahoma.

If a person is carrying in a different state under reciprocity, then they must follow the laws of that different state, not their home state.

In the OP's case, Oklahoma laws on notification are all he needs to follow when in OK.
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Re: Pulled over in OK

Postby Jumping Frog » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:25 pm

Teamless wrote:According to http://www.handgunlaw.us and checking the Oklahoma laws, it states that that you need to inform the officer.
However, in a bit more investigation, it is similar to Texas, as when asked for ID, then you have to show.

So your question
SavageMythology wrote:Was it necessary (or simply advisable, or not advisable) for me to show my CHL to the officer in this situation?
I have to answer with, if you were in the passenger seat, did he actually ask you for ID, or while he was talking to your wife (the driver) did you open up about it?
If he asked you for ID, then YES, you needed to show the CHL.

That is accurate as far as it goes, but there is also the issue that the passenger is clearly required to tell the officer he has a handgun at the first opportunity. Once you've told him you have a handgun, him asking if you are licensed is an obvious follow-up question which then requires you to show the valid handgun license and driver license.

21 § 1290.8.C. It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed or unconcealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop. Said identification to the law enforcement officer shall be made at the first opportunity. No person shall be required to identify himself or herself as a handgun licensee when no handgun is in the possession of the person or in any vehicle in which the person is driving or is a passenger. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection shall, upon conviction, be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not exceeding - One Hundred Dollars ($100.00).
-Bob . . . NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, TFC member, JFPO member, and OFCC Patron member

This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
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Re: Pulled over in OK

Postby gringo pistolero » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:47 am

For a hundred bucks, I'll exercise my right to remain silent.
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Re: Pulled over in OK

Postby OldCurlyWolf » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:35 pm

Froggie is close but no cigar. If you as the license holder are not in direct contact with an officer during the course of his duties there is no duty to identify on your part.

If he asks you are to correctly and honestly reply.
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Re: Pulled over in OK

Postby E.Marquez » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:58 pm

gringo pistolero wrote:For a hundred bucks, I'll exercise my right to remain silent.

Please write from jail.. let us know when visiting hours are..

:mrgreen:
"It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed or unconcealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop. Said identification to the law enforcement officer shall be made at the first opportunity"

you have a right to remain silent.

Law enforcement the right to arrest you.

Id bet both of you get to exercise those rights.

As the passenger was not there due to a traffic stop.. and not at that point under arrest, perhaps the passenger could have asked the LEO if he was detained, if not then he could have walked away, more important;y, he wold not have been responsible (as far as I can tell) to inform.
Last edited by E.Marquez on Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pulled over in OK

Postby smoothoperator » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:11 pm

Concealed means __________

:mrgreen:
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Re: Pulled over in OK

Postby RSJ » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:13 pm

gringo pistolero wrote:For a hundred bucks, I'll exercise my right to remain silent.


I would gladly help a TXCHLFORUM'er with this type of matter for no-charge.
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