First Contact

[RX8er]

Out on the open road I run a gps program that keeps a continuous log of my speed, location and heading. If I have to go to court over a mistaken ID stop, I am going to win.

Good luck with that. Do a quick Google for it as many I have read about are not successful.

At one time, when I was gadgetizing my RX8, I thought about adding in audio/video for the front, sides and rear. On a Mobile PC forum I was in, there were countless posts of people taking certified GPS records to court and still loosing.

The main reason, if you go in to court and you are registered on video for 1 mph over, the ticket will stick because you were speeding. Google it an read about it. There was one guy that was so tin foil hat that he even recorded the court proceeding and posted that up. Sure enough, the judge found him guilty, even though the LEO was off by 10 mph. She reduced hist $283 (something like that) down to $150 + court costs at $50.

Since I normally run at least 5mph under the limit on the highway, I do believe that my chances of winning are nearly 100%.

Yep, your odds are pretty good.

[C-dub]

So, I was admitting defeat (more-or-less) and headed to the courthouse this morning, only to find out that they're closed all day on Friday.

As I was filling out the plea form, I noticed that the date is wrong on the ticket. I hope that I'm not screwing up, but I'm just filling out the response as not guilty, I'll go to court and show evidence that I was at the HLSR BBQ cookoff as a sponsor all day on the 21st, which was the date the officer wrote on the ticket. I'll also print out records of my toll passes to show that I was at 290 on the 22nd in the morning headed toward Bryan and in the afternoon headed back. The vehicle I was in did not pass any toll booths on the 21st. If, as C-dub says, I have a JP who says the date doesn't matter, I'll have to argue that it certainly DOES matter. In my line of business (pharmacy, in nursing homes, hospitals, and surgery) our records are absolutely crucial and a screw-up on a date could be the difference between life or death -- or between being paid, or having our money taken back for medicare or insurance fraud.

Now my question would be trial by judge, or trial by jury? Once again, Mr. Shasta says judge, but I feel that a jury may be more likely to believe the motorist.

I think the flaw in my argument was that I was still issued the ticket regardless of the date on it and I was speeding. That was my one and only time in a courtroom. If you go with a jury I think you might have better luck convincing them that the officer's radar picked up another car passing you and that it wasn't you that was speeding.

I hope you are successful.

[dicion]

I've had one of these as well, as well as a few other 'questionable' stops or things that turned out to be my word vs theirs, namely an accident where the other female driver lied through her teeth about what happened. The cop believed her and not me. I got a ticket, and she did not.

I bought a Dashcam. It records 12 hours on a loop.

They sell Dashcams that have GPS and speed from the GPS on them.

Since I've bought it, I've almost been in half a dozen situations where I would have been completely glad I had it had I not avoided the accident/situation.

You can get one for less than $100.

Tickets start at 150+. If it prevents one, it's paid for itself.

[dicion]

So, I was admitting defeat (more-or-less) and headed to the courthouse this morning, only to find out that they're closed all day on Friday.

As I was filling out the plea form, I noticed that the date is wrong on the ticket.

I've had tickets thrown out for the offense date being wrong. Call a lawyer and have it tossed.

And for anyone who wonders about above post and/or this post about myself having so much experience with tickets and driving situations, I drive pretty much all day, every day for my job. Have done so for the past 12 years.
I put over 100k on my work vehicles in less than 3 years on average. Lots of hours and lots of miles means I run into a lot of situations :)

I will say that I currently have absolutely no convictions on my driving record in those past 12 years ;)

[baldeagle]

Don't worry guys. In a little while the problem will be solved for you. The US DoT is mandating black boxes in all new cars starting in 2014. Once that happens the cops won't even have to patrol or use radar any more. The government will simply upload your data weekly and send you tickets for each time you exceeded the speed limit.

Ain't technology great?

[RX8er]

Don't worry guys. In a little while the problem will be solved for you. The US DoT is mandating black boxes in all new cars starting in 2014. Once that happens the cops won't even have to patrol or use radar any more. The government will simply upload your data weekly and send you tickets for each time you exceeded the speed limit.



Ain't technology great?

The vast majority of new cars in the last couple years have had black boxes in them.

[Keith B]

Don't worry guys. In a little while the problem will be solved for you. The US DoT is mandating black boxes in all new cars starting in 2014. Once that happens the cops won't even have to patrol or use radar any more. The government will simply upload your data weekly and send you tickets for each time you exceeded the speed limit.



Ain't technology great?

The vast majority of new cars in the last couple years have had black boxes in them.

They do use them in accident investigation. I had some good friends that were killed by a guy that was speeding. He was driving a GMC Envoy. Analysis of the box indicated he was going 98 MPH when he went hit the curb, went air-born and sheered the top off of their mini van. This was in a 40 MPH zone and at an intersection. He was the only one to survive, but is paralyzed and now serving a 15 year sentence for vehicular manslaughter.

[C-dub]

Don't worry guys. In a little while the problem will be solved for you. The US DoT is mandating black boxes in all new cars starting in 2014. Once that happens the cops won't even have to patrol or use radar any more. The government will simply upload your data weekly and send you tickets for each time you exceeded the speed limit.



Ain't technology great?

The vast majority of new cars in the last couple years have had black boxes in them.

They do use them in accident investigation. I had some good friends that were killed by a guy that was speeding. He was driving a GMC Envoy. Analysis of the box indicated he was going 98 MPH when he went hit the curb, went air-born and sheered the top off of their mini van. This was in a 40 MPH zone and at an intersection. He was the only one to survive, but is paralyzed and now serving a 15 year sentence for vehicular manslaughter.

Terribly sorry about your friends. I wonder if it would have been a better punishment after convicting this guy to have released him to his family to care for, rather than paying a bunch of government employees to do that. Make him ineligible for any government assistance and let him be a burden on his family.

[Keith B]

Terribly sorry about your friends. I wonder if it would have been a better punishment after convicting this guy to have released him to his family to care for, rather than paying a bunch of government employees to do that. Make him ineligible for any government assistance and let him be a burden on his family.

The problem is I don't think his family would have taken him. He was divorced and not really anyone to care for him. He would have either been free or ended up on state aid anyway. This way he is not only confined to his wheelchair he is confined to a cell. He killed a family of 5 and should have done 15 years for each count instead of one concurrent sentence. That's my view, however, I am extremely biased on this one.

[RX8er]

Don't worry guys. In a little while the problem will be solved for you. The US DoT is mandating black boxes in all new cars starting in 2014. Once that happens the cops won't even have to patrol or use radar any more. The government will simply upload your data weekly and send you tickets for each time you exceeded the speed limit.



Ain't technology great?

The vast majority of new cars in the last couple years have had black boxes in them.

They do use them in accident investigation. I had some good friends that were killed by a guy that was speeding. He was driving a GMC Envoy. Analysis of the box indicated he was going 98 MPH when he went hit the curb, went air-born and sheered the top off of their mini van. This was in a 40 MPH zone and at an intersection. He was the only one to survive, but is paralyzed and now serving a 15 year sentence for vehicular manslaughter.

Thanks for sharing this story. Here is what it says in my manual:

Your Lexus is equipped with several sophisticated computers that will record certain
data, such as:
• Engine speed
• Electric motor speed (traction motor speed) (hybrid vehicles)
• Accelerator status
• Brake status
• Vehicle speed
• Shift position
• Hybrid battery (traction battery) status (hybrid vehicles)
The recorded data varies according to the vehicle grade level and options with which
it is equipped. Furthermore, these computers do not record conversations, sounds or
pictures.
●Data usage
Lexus may use the data recorded in these computers to diagnose malfunctions,
conduct research and development, and improve quality.
Lexus will not disclose the recorded data to a third party except:
• With the consent of the vehicle owner or with the consent of the lessee if the
vehicle is leased
• In response to an official request by the police, a court of law or a government
agency
• For use by Lexus in a lawsuit
• For research purposes where the data is not tied to a specific vehicle or vehicle
owner
●Usage of data collected through Safety Connect / Lexus Enform (U.S. mainland
only)
If your Lexus has Safety Connect or Lexus Enform and if you have subscribed to
those services, please refer to the Safety Connect / Lexus Enform Telematics Subscription Service Agreement for information on data collected and its usage.

This vehicle is equipped with an event data recorder (EDR). The main purpose of an
EDR is to record, in certain crash or near crash-like situations, such as an air bag
deployment or hitting a road obstacle, data that will assist in understanding how a
vehicle’s systems performed. The EDR is designed to record data related to vehicle
dynamics and safety systems for a short period of time, typically 30 seconds or less.
The EDR in this vehicle is designed to record such data as:
• How various systems in your vehicle were operating;
• Whether or not the driver and passenger safety belts were buckled/fastened;
• How far (if at all) the driver was depressing the accelerator and/or brake pedal;
and,
• How fast the vehicle was traveling.
These data can help provide a better understanding of the circumstances in which
crashes and injuries occur.
NOTE: EDR data are recorded by your vehicle only if a nontrivial crash situation
occurs; no data are recorded by the EDR under normal driving conditions and no
personal data (e.g., name, gender, age, and crash location) are recorded. However,
other parties, such as law enforcement, could combine the EDR data with the type of
personally identifying data routinely acquired during a crash investigation.
To read data recorded by an EDR, special equipment is required, and access to the
vehicle or the EDR is needed. In addition to the vehicle manufacturer, other parties,
such as law enforcement, that have the special equipment, can read the information
if they have access to the vehicle or the EDR.
●Disclosure of the EDR data
Lexus will not disclose the data recorded in an EDR to a third party except when:
• An agreement from the vehicle’s owner (or the lessee for a leased vehicle) is
obtained
• In response to an official request by the police, a court of law or a government
agency
• For use by Lexus in a lawsuit
However, if necessary, Lexus may:
• Use the data for research on vehicle safety performance
• Disclose the data to a third party for research purposes without disclosing information about the specific vehicle or vehicle owner

[Keith B]

NOTE: EDR data are recorded by your vehicle only if a nontrivial crash situation
occurs; no data are recorded by the EDR under normal driving conditions and no
personal data (e.g., name, gender, age, and crash location) are recorded. However,
other parties, such as law enforcement, could combine the EDR data with the type of
personally identifying data routinely acquired during a crash investigation.
To read data recorded by an EDR, special equipment is required, and access to the
vehicle or the EDR is needed. In addition to the vehicle manufacturer, other parties,
such as law enforcement, that have the special equipment, can read the information
if they have access to the vehicle or the EDR.

Actually, they have been running a trial in Chevy 4x4's for a while now where the last 30 seconds of data recorded also include audio from the passenger compartment. In most of the US the last words before a crash are a violation this forum's profanity rules. However, in Mississippi, Georgia and Alabama they are 'Hey, hold my beer and watch this!'

[jsenner]

Now my question would be trial by judge, or trial by jury? Once again, Mr. Shasta says judge, but I feel that a jury may be more likely to believe the motorist.

Your theory about the jury siding with the motorist is a very good one and it's probably very true - except for the reality that this jury won't be made up of your civically minded peers like us but rather of 12 people who are irritated at having to waste an entire day (probably without pay since they're hourly), having to pay extra money for daycare, reschedule things they had planned for the day, all just to listen to some jerk whine about having to pay a speeding ticket. Their one and only thought will be, "pay it like the rest of us and stop wasting my time. Guilty. Now can we get the hell out of here?"

Even if you get really lucky and get more than a couple non-obamaphone people on your jury, I really think the judge is the only one in that situation that would give you anything close to a fair shake. Life sucks and then you die, in this case. I wish it was different.

[RX8er]

they are 'Hey, hold my beer and watch this!'

I remember reading an NTSB report that had the same thing on the cockpit voice recorder.

Here is another very interesting official NTSB report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 8632&key=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tomtexan]

Once, the officer wrote the wrong date on my ticket and the judge said it didn't matter, it only had to be close.

I think I would then have to reply and say that if it (the date) didn't matter, then why in the world do they even bother writing it on there in the first place?

[srothstein]

Tomtexan,

I explained more about the date in a PM to the OP, but let me say a little bit here. In most cases, nothing on the ticket really matters. What is of legal consequence is the complaint filed with the court. That is the list of exactly what is alleged and must be proven. Some courts do use the ticket as the complaint, in which case it matters. It still does not have to be exact, just close enough for you to know what is alleged to prepare a defense. Some complaints will read "on xx day, at or about xx time" because no one really knows exactly which time it was. Others will say "on or about xx date at xx time" for the same reason. In the first case, the date makes much more of a difference than in the second.

But the real importance of the date on the ticket is it can be used to show the officer made mistakes. If he was sloppy about this, what other mistakes did he make - like which vehicle was being tracked by the radar? That is when you get the jury to side with you instead of them.