Public safety or feeding a cash cow?

[handog]

Today my perfect driving record has been shattered. No accidents, no traffic violations on record. Yes I had a run in with one of Cedar Parks finest while driving my boy home from school.

Leo: hi, can I see your lic. And registration ?

Handog: hands on wheel. I have a CHL. No gun. (Breaking my own rule)

Leo: I appreciate you telling me.

Handog:is there a problem?

Leo: you were speeding. 40 in a 30 MPH zone.

Hangdog: really?

Leo: anything illegal in there? Any knives?

Handog: (thinking) would I tell you if there was? I don't have to answer.

Hangdog: no

Leo: sign here

Handog: we both know this has nothing to do with safety. It's about generating revenue.

Leo: it is about safety. if you want to fight it ill see you in court. Drive safely.

Handog: (thinking) I was driving safely.

Not a bad stop. Here's the thing. I went back to the scene of the alleged crime after LEO and radar gun left. Took pictures.
There was not one single speed limit sign on the block! The LEO was parked under a tree an the bottom of the hill. Near by streets have signs at 30,35,40MPH.

Please vote:

1.Fight speed trap ticket. Bring photos to court.

2.Stop whining. Send the $200.00 and slow down before you kill someone.

[RottenApple]

No poll, so can't "vote". But if there truly are no speed limit signs, and you have the pics to prove it, then I'd fight it.

I was stopped once for the same thing in Bexar County. When I told the officer there was no sign, he claimed there was and even walked me back to it (pre-CHL). Turns out there was a sign, but that tree branches had overgrown it and it wasn't visible. He let me off with a verbal warning? The next time I drove that rode the tree had been trimmed back!

ETA: Just thought of something. Sometimes a subdivision will put up speed limit signs stating "xx MPH unless otherwise posted". Is it possible the signs in the area you received the ticket are like that? Because if they are, I dunno if you're gonna win this one.

[C-dub]

Depends on exactly which type of street it is. Many of the streets in my neighborhood are 20-MPH, but some are 30-MPH and not very many of them are actually posted. I don't know what the laws are on them being posted. I do know that several of them are listed in the city code and there are speed limits listed by the type of street.

I could have received a ticket a few months ago for a school zone only a couple blocks from my house and not the usual direction I travel at that time of day. It's a private school and does have school zone signs, but there are no lights and just the times listed on the signs. I had not seen them enforced in over 6 years and tree limbs had grown to block the signs from view. To further complicate my problem the times the kids are walking to and from don't really match up with the times on the signs. The officer was standing on the side of the street and motioned for me to stop. He informed me of my speed and reminded me to slow down and never asked for ID, also acknowledging the tree limbs. I said, "Yes Sir" and was on my way. A couple weeks later the tree limbs had been cut back and I could see the signs and times. There were now kids walking around when the officer stopped me. Like I said, most of the streets around me are 20-MPH, but this one is 30-MPH and the one it leads to from my street is 35-MPH, but that one is well marked.

For $200 and the lack of speed signs, I think I would challenge that one, but not have too high of expectations of winning.

[puma guy]

An ex-HPD in my neighborhood told me he demands every shred of documentation, certification records, calibration, repair history, etc. for the radar/ldar instrument to be produced on any ticket he or family gets. I just paid for DD on the ticket that broke my clean record for 51 years.

[gthaustex]

A long time ago, I worked for a law enforcement agency. I seem to remember the default speed limit on streets in urban areas to be 30mph if not otherwise posted....

From Vernon's Civil Statutes...


Text of subsec. (b) as amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 663, Sec. 2 and Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 739, Sec. 1

(b) Unless a special hazard exists that requires a slower speed for compliance with Section 545.351(b), the following speeds are lawful:

(1) 30 miles per hour in an urban district on a street other than an alley and 15 miles per hour in an alley;

[SF18C]

To answer your question of rather to fight the ticket or not, I would like to propose a question, “Where you speeding?”

I would see if you can get it deferred by taking the online drivers safety class.

[RottenApple]

To answer your question of rather to fight the ticket or not, I would like to propose a question, “Where you speeding?”

I would see if you can get it deferred by taking the online drivers safety class.

If there were no sign, then how would he know?

[suthdj]

A long time ago, I worked for a law enforcement agency. I seem to remember the default speed limit on streets in urban areas to be 30mph if not otherwise posted....

From Vernon's Civil Statutes...


Text of subsec. (b) as amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 663, Sec. 2 and Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 739, Sec. 1

(b) Unless a special hazard exists that requires a slower speed for compliance with Section 545.351(b), the following speeds are lawful:

(1) 30 miles per hour in an urban district on a street other than an alley and 15 miles per hour in an alley;

I was pulled over many years back for speeding(60 in a 40) I did the same went up and down the road and only sign I found was a mile prior to where I entered 1 sign in a 2 mile length of road so I did a little reading and found the same answer. So I complained to the DA and plead gui....No contest. $180 dollars later I still speed, can't help it. Only tickets I ever get, even got one on my way to the forum meet-up many years back(80 in a 60).

[suthdj]

To answer your question of rather to fight the ticket or not, I would like to propose a question, “Where you speeding?”

I would see if you can get it deferred by taking the online drivers safety class.

If there were no sign, then how would he know?

Ignorance of the law is no excuse............. unless you are a politician.

[A-R]

30 mph is prima facia speed limit for an urban area unless otherwise marked.

Sec. 545.352.  PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS. (a) A speed in excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful.
(b)  Unless a special hazard exists that requires a slower speed for compliance with Section 545.351(b), the following speeds are lawful:
(1)  30 miles per hour in an urban district on a street other than an alley and 15 miles per hour in an alley;
(2)  except as provided by Subdivision (4), 70 miles per hour on a highway numbered by this state or the United States outside an urban district, including a farm-to-market or ranch-to-market road;
(3)  except as provided by Subdivision (4), 60 miles per hour on a highway that is outside an urban district and not a highway numbered by this state or the United States;
(4)   outside an urban district:
(A)  60 miles per hour if the vehicle is a school bus that has passed a commercial motor vehicle inspection under Section 548.201 and is on a highway numbered by the United States or this state, including a farm-to-market road; or
(B)  50 miles per hour if the vehicle is a school bus that:
(i)  has not passed a commercial motor vehicle inspection under Section 548.201; or
(ii)  is traveling on a highway not numbered by the United States or this state;
(5)  on a beach, 15 miles per hour; or
(6)  on a county road adjacent to a public beach, 15 miles per hour, if declared by the commissioners court of the county.
(c)  The speed limits for a bus or other vehicle engaged in the business of transporting passengers for compensation or hire, for a commercial vehicle used as a highway post office vehicle for highway post office service in the transportation of United States mail, for a light truck, and for a school activity bus are the same as required for a passenger car at the same time and location.
(d)  In this section:
(1)  "Interstate highway" means a segment of the national system of interstate and defense highways that is:
(A)  located in this state;
(B)  officially designated by the Texas Transportation Commission; and
(C)  approved under Title 23, United States Code.
(2)  "Light truck" means a truck with a manufacturer's rated carrying capacity of not more than 2,000 pounds, including a pick-up truck, panel delivery truck, and carry-all truck.
(3)  "Urban district" means the territory adjacent to and including a highway, if the territory is improved with structures that are used for business, industry, or dwelling houses and are located at intervals of less than 100 feet for a distance of at least one-quarter mile on either side of the highway.
(e)  An entity that establishes or alters a speed limit under this subchapter shall establish the same speed limit for daytime and nighttime.

[OldGrumpy]

Last time I got a ticket (3 yrs ago) I just did the defensive driving and no hassle. Time previous to that was 25 years ago I went to City Court to fight it. Lost and had to pay the ticket anyway. Good part was that I talked for two hours in my appeal. It was almost ten o'clock when I finished. Judge and City Attorney were wanting to go home, but there was still about 10 other appeals to be heard after me. Felt like I got my money's worth.

[RottenApple]

Last time I got a ticket (3 yrs ago) I just did the defensive driving and no hassle. Time previous to that was 25 years ago I went to City Court to fight it. Lost and had to pay the ticket anyway. Good part was that I talked for two hours in my appeal. It was almost ten o'clock when I finished. Judge and City Attorney were wanting to go home, but there was still about 10 other appeals to be heard after me. Felt like I got my money's worth.

[texanjoker]

Do you want to waste a day in court? That will be the real issue. 40 in a 30? Hard to beat that one. Many areas do not have signs posted and it is your requirement to know the basic laws. TX is huge on revenue from tickets. Make sure you get it deferred if eligible so your insurance doesn't go up.

[handog]

30 mph is prima facia speed limit for an urban area unless otherwise marked.

Sec. 545.352.  PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS. (a) A speed in excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful.
(b)  Unless a special hazard exists that requires a slower speed for compliance with Section 545.351(b), the following speeds are lawful:
(1)  30 miles per hour in an urban district on a street other than an alley and 15 miles per hour in an alley;
(2)  except as provided by Subdivision (4), 70 miles per hour on a highway numbered by this state or the United States outside an urban district, including a farm-to-market or ranch-to-market road;
(3)  except as provided by Subdivision (4), 60 miles per hour on a highway that is outside an urban district and not a highway numbered by this state or the United States;
(4)   outside an urban district:
(A)  60 miles per hour if the vehicle is a school bus that has passed a commercial motor vehicle inspection under Section 548.201 and is on a highway numbered by the United States or this state, including a farm-to-market road; or
(B)  50 miles per hour if the vehicle is a school bus that:
(i)  has not passed a commercial motor vehicle inspection under Section 548.201; or
(ii)  is traveling on a highway not numbered by the United States or this state;
(5)  on a beach, 15 miles per hour; or
(6)  on a county road adjacent to a public beach, 15 miles per hour, if declared by the commissioners court of the county.
(c)  The speed limits for a bus or other vehicle engaged in the business of transporting passengers for compensation or hire, for a commercial vehicle used as a highway post office vehicle for highway post office service in the transportation of United States mail, for a light truck, and for a school activity bus are the same as required for a passenger car at the same time and location.
(d)  In this section:
(1)  "Interstate highway" means a segment of the national system of interstate and defense highways that is:
(A)  located in this state;
(B)  officially designated by the Texas Transportation Commission; and
(C)  approved under Title 23, United States Code.
(2)  "Light truck" means a truck with a manufacturer's rated carrying capacity of not more than 2,000 pounds, including a pick-up truck, panel delivery truck, and carry-all truck.
(3)  "Urban district" means the territory adjacent to and including a highway, if the territory is improved with structures that are used for business, industry, or dwelling houses and are located at intervals of less than 100 feet for a distance of at least one-quarter mile on either side of the highway.
(e)  An entity that establishes or alters a speed limit under this subchapter shall establish the same speed limit for daytime and nighttime.

Thanks for digging that up.

I won't contest the ticket. Looks like I can take an online defensive driving course for an additional fee to eliminate the points.

There are so many laws/rules to follow that we are all criminals at this point. I'm going to measure the grass. Don't need the HOA lawn patrol coming down on me

[Zoo]

Hire a lawyer specializing in it and fight it. Especially if you think it's about money, the best thing is deny them easy money. Make it more expensive to prosecute than your ticket. If it's really about safety, they will follow through, like we accept that prosecuting a convenience store robber costs more money than he stole.