No gun, but she was stopped driving my truck for no lic plate light which is a good stop so no issue there. It was 0145 so they were on a fishing expedition which is fine as license plate lights are good PC. I have already fixed that to avoid that issue again . However she was sober and hadn't been drinking but was still pulled out of the car along with her passenger and ran through a series of questions about dwi to include asking about pills, ect. That part is funny since she didn't know what they were talking about and said she has taken Advil before Where I come from you have time to write a ticket/warning and can run an inquiry if warranted, but no more detention without further PC. That is based on the 4th amendment so it is and should be universal. You also don't remove people from cars and do what they did w/o PC. Gonna go request the video Tuesday as I want to see their fishing expedition and find out how long they had her detained before I form a final opinion about the stop. She is 18 1/2 and said it scared the heck out of her. She knows if you drink don't drive my car. No reason to scare a kid IMO w/o further PC.
[quote="tomtexan"]How many license plate lights are there on your truck? Are there two and if so were both of them out?[/quote
2..replaced both already and took the cover off the plate as well..i didnt even check them. Just bought 2 bulbs and chamged them. i have no issue with the reason for stop...just concerned about what happened. The video if they have it will tell all and the dispatch record of how long they had her stopped.
You wouldn't think that a dedicated public servant would detain a couple of young girls without PC, do you? Did your daughter happen to mention the approximate age of the officer?
The reason I ask is that, for a while, one of our local agencies had a couple of young guys that seemed to stay out on traffic stops an unusual amount of time, often clearing with a "no citation, warning issued" till the night supervisor in their division noticed the age and gender of the folks on the warnings when the books were turned in. Needless to say, that got stopped rather quickly.
NRA-Life member, NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, TSRA member,
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I'll withhold establishing my opinion until I get further evidence and assume the cop was in the right. The girl must have exhibited signs of intoxication or being under the influence. A police officer that did everything by the book up to the point of getting her out of the car is most likely not going to unnecessarily detain a suspect without probable cause or the legal authority to do so. Sounds like a dad being overly protective and a daughter that nearly got caught doing something wrong and is trying to cover for herself. On top of that, we are only hearing one side if the story. Would like to hear what the cop saw and was thinking.
Both of you should just chalk it up to good police work and let it be a life lesson for your daughter to not do things she shouldn't.
Last edited by mojo84 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gigag04 wrote:Not sure you need PC to ask someone to step out of a car. You can get almost all the way through a DWI stop on mere consent if you're polite.
Do you know of any recent case law on that?
To your point I don't think an LEO needs PC to "ask" anything, just hope there aren't offended when I say no!
Ordering the driver and passenger out of the car during a routine traffic stop was completely legal, per the US Supreme Court's 1977 decision in Pennsylvania v Mimms and it's 1997 decision in Maryland v. Wilson.
These decisions are exactly on point for the situation described.
Excaliber
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
mojo84 wrote:I'll withhold establishing my opinion until I get further evidence and assume the cop was in the right. The girl must have exhibited signs of intoxication or being under the influence. A police officer that did everything by the book up to the point of getting her out of the car is most likely not going to unnecessarily detain a suspect without probable cause. Sounds like a dad being overly protective and a daughter that nearly got caught doing something wrong and is trying to cover for herself. On top of that, we are only hearing one side if the story. Would like to hear what the cop saw and was thinking.
Both of you should just chalk it up to good police work and let it be a life lesson for your daughter to not do things she shouldn't.
Good one dude. That's why I stated I won't form a final opinion until I learn more . The initial stop is fine as they had a legit violation that has been fixed. I have a friend that was working that night and he told me some info so I know what was going on. I do agree it was a good life lesson because it showed her that had she had ANY alcohol or drugs in her system, these guys were going to hook her up. I preach to them big time DO NOT drink and drive period. Fortunately she had not drank a drop and doesn't do drugs so she was fine. I have always made a point of speaking up if I see stuff like this happening while on duty so I expect the same for mine.
Last edited by texanjoker on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
And as of today, HB 625 goes into affect and clarifies that the penalty for operating a vehicle on a public highway without displaying the two license plates assigned to the vehicle is a misdemeanor offense punishable by a fine not to exceed $200.
Better get that front plate on folks.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Keith B wrote:And as of today, HB 625 goes into affect and clarifies that the penalty for operating a vehicle on a public highway without displaying the two license plates assigned to the vehicle is a misdemeanor offense punishable by a fine not to exceed $200.
Better get that front plate on folks.
Good info. We need a good legal update on all the new laws asap.
Texanjoker, I have to agree with GigAg04 and Excalibur. There is no reason not to get the driver out of the vehicle on a traffic stop, and it is usually a good idea to do so at night when you think it might be a DWI stop. There is no probable cause needed and it lets you see how well they can walk and stand to evaluate their possible drinking.
From what you posted, I think the stop was 100% legit and went down just right. The only point I disagree with (and I do understand the logic, just disagree) is the must issue written warning or citation. I have lost track of how many times I have stopped cars and let them go with verbal warnings, especially if the stop was for an equipment failure that I thought the driver was unaware of (like a blown taillight or brakelight). But I do understand the need to document the stops so I don't argue too much with the mandatory written warning part.
. However she was sober and hadn't been drinking but was still pulled out of the car along with her passenger and ran through a series of questions about dwi to include asking about pills, ect. That part is funny since she didn't know what they were talking about and said she has taken Advil before 
Where I come from you have time to write a ticket/warning and can run an inquiry if warranted, but no more detention without further PC. That is based on the 4th amendment so it is and should be universal. You also don't remove people from cars and do what they did w/o PC. Gonna go request the video Tuesday as I want to see their fishing expedition and find out how long they had her detained before I form a final opinion about the stop. She is 18 1/2 and said it scared the heck out of her. She knows if you drink don't drive my car. No reason to scare a kid IMO w/o further PC. 
Did your daughter happen to mention the approximate age of the officer?
. The initial stop is fine as they had a legit violation that has been fixed. I have a friend that was working that night and he told me some info so I know what was going on. I do agree it was a good life lesson because it showed her that had she had ANY alcohol or drugs in her system, these guys were going to hook her up. I preach to them big time DO NOT drink and drive period. Fortunately she had not drank a drop and doesn't do drugs so she was fine. I have always made a point of speaking up if I see stuff like this happening while on duty so I expect the same for mine.