Unusual LEO Encounter (Non-CHL Related)

[joelamosobadiah]

So first, before it's mentioned, I did not have my handgun in the vehicle at the time and I'm embarrassed about that because I generally always have it with me. Moving on to the story though.

I am an independent Landman so I do title research in courthouses all across the state. Currently I am a couple hours from home working. Today I was driving from my hotel about 45 minutes from the courthouse I am working in. I passed a sheriff deputy and was pulled over (I missed a speed limit sign and was speeding 10-15 over).

Standard procedure, I pulled out my DL, insurance, turned off the vehicle and had my hands on the steering wheel. The officer seemed on edge from the start when he walked up. He asked if I had "any other license" to show him, so I pulled out my CHL and told him I didn't have my handgun in the vehicle today.

He proceeded to ask several questions about where I was going what was I doing, etc. He went to his vehicle for a few minutes. He came back and told me he felt I was nervous and the fact I had been pulled over "several times all across the state" was making him suspicious. He asked more about what I did, if I could prove it, what hotel I was staying at, what restaurants were close by, etc. Being an independent Landman I have no business cards, company ID, etc.

He went back to his vehicle, and 5 minutes later came back with a warning, told me he felt very uncomfortable, but the traffic stop was completed. Then proceeded to ask me if I would consent to a search. I told him I would prefer to be on my way and he let me go.

I have absolutely 0 criminal record or history, 1 ticket my entire life, 4-5 warnings all in different counties because I drive for a living. I thought the whole encounter was extremely strange.

Does it sound like I handled the situation correctly? What would you have done differently?

[RPBrown]

I think you handled it as well as you could. Some LEO's, especially rural, are uneasy when they find out you have a CHL but did not present it with your DL even though not required if not carrying.

[dlh]

Sounds to me like you handled it fairly well.

I have not been stopped by LEO since I obtained my CHL but if I were stopped, whether I had my handgun or not, I would show them both my driver's license and CHL license. If they then asked about my handgun we could take it from there.

If the LEO wanted to he could have given you a citation for speeding from the facts you presented. They can also call out the "drug dogs" if they want as long as it does not unreasonably detain you. That gets into another whole can of worms and the details of that we need not explore here.

I was stopped by D.P.S. a few years back---patrolman did not like the way I passed another vehicle on a state highway. However, I was quite pleasant and truthfully answered all of his questions and he let me go without even asking to see my driver's license. I think the fact that he smelled no marijuana or alcohol when I rolled my window down probably played a large role in the outcome. :)

dlh

[Abraham]

Sounds like you handled the situation very well.

He might've been on the lookout for a criminal he didn't have enough precise information about so he asked you a bunch of question to reassure himself you were legit.

Maybe.

I thought your polite refusal to have your vehicle searched while he remained professional with your response sounds like he's a good LEO.

Plus, the fact you weren't ticketed, but only warned says good things about both of you.

[joelamosobadiah]

Yeah, in the end, my conclusion is that he was already on edge. Something about my vehicle (the mess of fast food trash from the past 2 days in passenger seat, mess of papers in the backseat because it's my office, etc.) probably set him on edge even further. The most surprising thing was after all that he gave me the warning.

Upon completion of the whole thing, I asked him if in the future he would suggest showing my CHL initially even if I don't have my gun and he didn't like that at all. I think he felt I was trying to game the system or something... I was like, I'm just trying to be helpful!

Overall, I felt as though he did his job and made the correct call, however the process was very strange. Maybe I should get some business cards made to make me appear more "official" in the future. That and hope I don't get pulled over by the same guy tomorrow.

[mojo84]

Keep in mind, many cops are on high alert and may be hypersensitive at the moment due to recent events. That's not an excuse to mistreat anyone but may explain his apparent hypersensitivity.

Tolerance to a degree, cooperation and understanding will go a long way to make things go as smoothly as possible.

[JALLEN]

Texas LEOs are more inquisitive than CHPs. The few times I have been stopped there, I've never been questioned about occupation, what I am doing, etc. Maybe this is a result of 6 decades of responsible, law-abiding, mostly sober good citizenship. Who knows?

Once, years ago, visiting my folks here, I pulled out of my dad's driveway, in his car, and ran smack into a roadblock! They were checking for drivers licenses. Driving with a CA license, a car with Texas plates, etc, different addresses on the registration and D/L all gave obvious probable cause to suspect.... What? Driving with discrepancies!!

My dad's name was the same as mine, other than middle name. In the midst of being peppered with all sorts of questions, I was forced to admit I was a lawyer, and in California. Prima facie evidence of something, but what?! Things were getting out of hand in a hurry, but then one of the 4 or 5 inquisitors finally recognized me. He had gone to HS with my little sister. That explained everything! Relief was universal, they took their hands off their holstered pistols, the presumption of innocence was restored!

Not the weirdest thing that ever happened to me, but pretty weird.

I would carry printed cards with name, telephone, maybe e-mail and "Independent Landman" or whatever is appropriate.

[MechAg94]

Before he got to the car, you should have stuck your hands out the window and yelled "I don't have a gun today!".

[puma guy]

I guess you could have asked him for his fishing license.

[Countryside]

I was in LE for over 10 years. This deputy was either on an ego trip or he is need of therapy and medication.

That was weird.

Sounds like he may have mental or emotional issues.

[Abraham]

Countryside,

Because his questions were inappropriate, or over the top, plus wanting to search the vehicle or ...?

Thanks!

[rtschl]

I don't blame LEO's for being very cautious and maybe a little nervous every time they stop someone. There have been 26 LEO's shot and killed in the line of duty this year. Let's give them a little slack.

From what LEO friends tell me... when there is no probable cause or reasonable suspicion, rural officers and especially DPS tend to ask permission to search more often than larger city LEO' do. My son found that out a couple of years ago (DPS). He knows now not to consent to a search.

So I think you handled it perfectly.

[Countryside]

Countryside,

Because his questions were inappropriate, or over the top, plus wanting to search the vehicle or ...?

Thanks!

He was just over the top...and you had given him no probable cause for anything. He had no way of knowing that you had been "pulled over all over the state." Traffic stops and warnings are not kept in a state-wide system that I know of. Also, I don't think you are obligated to show him the CHL any longer under the law. So his question had a hint of "smart-aleck". And him concluding it with a request to search...pointless...illogical.

When he said that he felt you were nervous I would have had to really tried hard not to say "Well, officer, you're acting rather weird and you're carrying a gun...that would make any normal person nervous."

[EEllis]

Maybe it's just me but I personally don't really care what attitude a police officer may or may not have as long as his actions and words don't cross the line. While it may have been a bit weird the cop gave a warning instead of a ticket, followed the law, heck even told the OP that the traffic stop was over before requesting the search, and personally I don't hold making a request against an officer as long as that is what it is. Maybe the guys dog died, his girlfriend left him, he was just shot at a week ago, who knows. Parsing everything everyone ever does just gets too tiring for me.

[joelamosobadiah]

[Abbreviated profanity deleted.] More unpleasant and upsetting for sure, but less strange. The strangest part is he was completely calm and nice through the whole encounter, but had a VERY heightened sense of something being out of place.

In the end, he seemed to follow all protocols and laws appropriately, never pushed me to answer a question, told me when I was free to go and didn't push the issue about a search at all.

As for the statewide system, I just assumed there was a way to see traffic tickets and warnings, but a friend who is a city police officer also stated he wasn't aware of any...