Lawful Order for civilians?

Most CHL/LEO contacts are positive, how about yours? Bloopers are fun, but no names please, if it will cause a LEO problems!

Moderators: carlson1, Keith B


airbornerangerboogie

#16

Post by airbornerangerboogie »

Quote:
Also, for a CHL holder, if asked for ID when you are carrying, you must display your driver license and CHL; and the officer can then disarm you.
yeppers, Peace Officer or Magistrate.
That doesn't seem right, if I'm legally carrying a firearm, say stopped for speeding or what, the LEO can take my firearm away from me without any reason? :shock:
User avatar

stevie_d_64
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 7590
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:17 pm
Location: 77504

#17

Post by stevie_d_64 »

airbornerangerboogie wrote:Quote:
Also, for a CHL holder, if asked for ID when you are carrying, you must display your driver license and CHL; and the officer can then disarm you.
yeppers, Peace Officer or Magistrate.
That doesn't seem right, if I'm legally carrying a firearm, say stopped for speeding or what, the LEO can take my firearm away from me without any reason? :shock:
Yep, it doesn't seem right, but they certainly can...How they do it and why they do it is up to them on the spot...

Best to be cool about it and comply...

The issue is certainly talked about here to great length, but it doesn't seem to happen alot...

I've notice (even this morning) in a thread that if the weapon is not actually on you, holtered, there seems to be this hide the gun, write a note where it is in the vehicle, and don't touch it till they (LEO) leave...

I have my suspicions about this procedure, and don;t think it is at all widespread...

I'd almost think for safeties sake, the less you mess with it the better (and safer) things turnout...

Call me crazy for thinking that though... ;-)
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!

txinvestigator
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 4331
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 6:40 pm
Location: DFW area
Contact:

#18

Post by txinvestigator »

airbornerangerboogie wrote:Quote:
Also, for a CHL holder, if asked for ID when you are carrying, you must display your driver license and CHL; and the officer can then disarm you.
yeppers, Peace Officer or Magistrate.
That doesn't seem right, if I'm legally carrying a firearm, say stopped for speeding or what, the LEO can take my firearm away from me without any reason? :shock:
No, he cannot without any reason. Here is the law;
Texas Government Code
§ 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. A peace
officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's
official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer
reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual.
The peace officer
shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging
the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the
license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or
another individual and if the license holder has not violated any
provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that
results in the arrest of the license holder.

As you can see, the matter is subjective.
*CHL Instructor*


"Speed is Fine, but accuracy is final"- Bill Jordan

Remember those who died, remember those who killed them.

txinvestigator
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 4331
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 6:40 pm
Location: DFW area
Contact:

#19

Post by txinvestigator »

srothstein wrote:
txinvestigator wrote: There is no charge in Texas of "failing to obey a lawful order".
Well, actually there is such a charge, sort of. But it is not in reference to what was under discussion. The proper charge is "Obedience required to police officers", which is the title of section 542.501 of the Transportation Code. It say

"A person may not wilfully fail or refuse to comply with a lawful order or direction of:
(1) a police officer; or ..."

But what it is really referring to is a police officer directing traffic. I bring it up just to show where the language comes from about lawful order.
True, and that only applies to the operaters of motor vehicles (542.001). It is for traffic direction ONLY, as you pointed out. A LEO can direct you to proceed against a red light, direction of traffice, etc. Good Point.
*CHL Instructor*


"Speed is Fine, but accuracy is final"- Bill Jordan

Remember those who died, remember those who killed them.

txinvestigator
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 4331
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 6:40 pm
Location: DFW area
Contact:

#20

Post by txinvestigator »

CHL/LEO wrote:
A LEO cannot just randomly walk up to a person, demand ID and do a Terry Search.
TXI - sure they can - it happens quite often. The key word you left out was "legally" ;-)
Caught in in my own peeve of word use. Yes, he can, but there is no LEGAL requirement to answer. ;)
*CHL Instructor*


"Speed is Fine, but accuracy is final"- Bill Jordan

Remember those who died, remember those who killed them.
User avatar

seamusTX
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 13551
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Galveston

#21

Post by seamusTX »

txinvestigator wrote:Texas Government Code
§ 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.
I think the officer will always "win" this one.

Some cops think non-LEOs should not have weapons. Not may, but some are prominent. They pop up every time some relaxation of firearms laws is proposed.

BTW, we are talking about Texas law, which is fine. Other states may be quite different.

- Jim

CHL/LEO
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 437
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:26 am
Location: Dallas

#22

Post by CHL/LEO »

Out of curiosity, what is the gist of such an explanation?
#1 - I want them to stay safe and when they are out of their vehicle it can be a lot more dangerous for them - especially in a high traffic area. The majority of my traffic stops are done when it's dark and that increases visibility issues even more; and that doesn't even touch upon the issue of intoxicated drivers on the road at that time of the night...

#2 - is for my safety. It's a lot harder for me to keep an eye on them while I'm trying to read my computer screen or write out a citation. It's also a bigger inconvenience for them. The longer it takes me to complete that part of the traffic stop the longer they are delayed as to where they were going.

The bottom line is their safety and officer safety.
"Conflict is inevitable; Combat is an option."

Life Member - NRA/TSRA/GOA

dezwartemaan
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:53 pm

Re: Lawful Order for civilians?

#23

Post by dezwartemaan »

TEX TN. CODE ANN. § 542.501 : Texas Statutes - Section 542.501: OBEDIENCE REQUIRED TO POLICE OFFICERS AND TO SCHOOL CROSSING GUARDS -

A person may not wilfully fail or refuse to comply with a lawful order or direction of:
(1) a police officer

Don't look under the Penal code for the obeying lawful order.

It's a Statute, not a penal code.
User avatar

Keith B
Moderator
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 18491
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: Lawful Order for civilians?

#24

Post by Keith B »

dezwartemaan wrote:TEX TN. CODE ANN. § 542.501 : Texas Statutes - Section 542.501: OBEDIENCE REQUIRED TO POLICE OFFICERS AND TO SCHOOL CROSSING GUARDS -

A person may not wilfully fail or refuse to comply with a lawful order or direction of:
(1) a police officer

Don't look under the Penal code for the obeying lawful order.

It's a Statute, not a penal code.
Welcome to the forum.

This is the Transportation Code and only applies to vehicle operation and traffic offenses.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4
User avatar

joe817
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 9315
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 7:13 pm
Location: Arlington

Re: Lawful Order for civilians?

#25

Post by joe817 »

Wow! Holy Rip van Winkle Batman! An 8 year old thread wakes up! :mrgreen:

Welcome to the forum dezwartemaan.
Diplomacy is the Art of Letting Someone Have Your Way
TSRA
Colt Gov't Model .380
User avatar

Topic author
LedJedi
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 1006
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Pearland, TX
Contact:

Re: Lawful Order for civilians?

#26

Post by LedJedi »

joe817 wrote:Wow! Holy Rip van Winkle Batman! An 8 year old thread wakes up! :mrgreen:

Welcome to the forum dezwartemaan.
ya... actually made me log in again to see what's up. I haven't been back here in years :)

whut up guys?
Post Reply

Return to “LEO Contacts & Bloopers”