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RetNavy wrote:while i was still working found most of the root causes of problems was the operator screwed up

Oh, you mean the operator needed more training.

RetNavy wrote:while i was still working found most of the root causes of problems was the operator screwed up

You would think that but I work for a company that believes SOMETHING could have been done to prevent the operator from screwing up. You wouldn't believe the man hours that are spent trying to idiot proof processes because an operator screwed up.

Right2Carry wrote:

RetNavy wrote:while i was still working found most of the root causes of problems was the operator screwed up

You would think that but I work for a company that believes SOMETHING could have been done to prevent the operator from screwing up. You wouldn't believe the man hours that are spent trying to idiot proof processes because an operator screwed up.

No such thing as idiot proof only idiot resistant, there will always be a slightly smarter idiot.

I've been in software development for about 25 years and many/most root causes turn out to be a "PICNIC" - "Problem In Chair Not In Computer."

jmra wrote:
ISO9000 and Kaizen meetings - two of my most reoccurring nightmares.

Hopefully we all appreciate the irony of having wasteful Kaizen meetings

(Note: I'm a very big believer in the purpose of Kaizen, but I'm dismayed when somebody thinks it's something to formalize)

mloamiller wrote:I've been in software development for about 25 years and many/most root causes turn out to be a "PICNIC" - "Problem In Chair Not In Computer."

I like this.

G26ster wrote:Wow, that reference from ISO9000 brought back some real nightmarish memories One of the reasons "root cause analysis" has such poor results in many companies is they simply don't fully grasp the real simplicity of ISO, and create a big, heavy, cumbersome system that works for no one. I'm so glad I'm retired

This is so true. Also, many companies are obsessed with being ISO and have no idea why they want it. You can have a very effective management program without having to pay a third party to certify your program as ISO.

txcharvel wrote:

G26ster wrote:Wow, that reference from ISO9000 brought back some real nightmarish memories One of the reasons "root cause analysis" has such poor results in many companies is they simply don't fully grasp the real simplicity of ISO, and create a big, heavy, cumbersome system that works for no one. I'm so glad I'm retired

This is so true. Also, many companies are obsessed with being ISO and have no idea why they want it. You can have a very effective management program without having to pay a third party to certify your program as ISO.

It's been a while since I was in the business, but at the time if you were doing any type of business with Europe you had to be ISO certified. You couldn't even sit at the table to discuss a bid without the certification. Things may well have changed in the last decade.

With 38 years as an operator most of the problems I encountered was incorrect information and poor upkeep of our instruments. If your process is temperature, pressure or level depenant the field instruments need to be correct no matter how whiz bang the control system or operator is, without correct information nothing works correctly. In my job I was controlling equipment almost a mile away or 274 feet above me from a control room that I could physically only see about 5% of the equipment I was controlling.

txcharvel wrote:This is so true. Also, many companies are obsessed with being ISO and have no idea why they want it. You can have a very effective management program without having to pay a third party to certify your program as ISO.

When I first heard of ISO9000 certification, it was described as "It means you have a very well-documented process. Not that you follow it necessarily, just that it's written down."

I always love the idea of ISO. You will try to do it the same way every time even if it's wrong. Lol
A company making concrete life jackets could get ISO certification.

ISO and SixSigma are what finally drove me out of the corporate world. I sat in on a Kaizen where we discussed lunch breaks for over an hour - turns out that people go to lunch early/late sometimes and theres no amount of paperwork that can change that. Who knew?

One of my favorite sayings....

jmra wrote:It's been a while since I was in the business, but at the time if you were doing any type of business with Europe you had to be ISO certified. You couldn't even sit at the table to discuss a bid without the certification. Things may well have changed in the last decade.

Still true, at least in the Medical Device world I work in. If you're not ISO certified, then don't even bother.

LabRat

I'd forgotten all the programs I survived in my 35 years in the refining industry. ISO, RCA, DuPont TAKE Two and STOP, SAP, Statistical Analysis, Quality Is Free, OSHA VPP-STAR, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Many I can't recall.