Help needed for teaching new shooter

[croc870]

A strong personal belief of mine is that we have to teach the new generation to shoot if we want to save our rights. Because of this, I always jump at every chance I get to introduce people to firearms, especially when it's a “non-traditional” shooter. Sadly, my generation never learned about firearms outside of the movies, so the knowledge base is incredibly low. I'm hoping some of the old hands here can give me some ideas on how to improve my instructional skills for this situation. This isn't a an actual class per se, but it seems close enough to warrant posting in this forum.

Today I was teaching a young female how to shoot. She's a U.S citizen, but since she was raised in Cameroon, English is a second language to her, and there are certainly some barriers there. I had an incredibly difficult time trying to get her to accurately line up the sights. After the usual safety lesson (four rules) and general explanation of mechanics of the firearm (Glock 23), we progressed to shooting. I started by using diagrams to explain the sights, then had her practice with a blue gun of mine. I was using a weaver stance as opposed to a isosceles, but for the most part it just amounted to explaining proper grip and the push/pull system. She appeared to understand it all, so I moved to live fire.

I'm not trying to teach anything incredibly complicated or advanced here, just how to line up the sights and squeeze off an untimed shot at a moderate range. I started by having her dry fire. She had no inherent flinch, and was pretty stable for a first time shooter. I then fired a few rounds at twenty-one feet so she could see how it sounded and looked. I then had her line up the sights and simple remain indexed while I squeezed off a round.

This is where I ran into trouble. No matter what I tried to have her do, her rounds were not on target. I thought it might be cross-dominant, and had her use the right eye, the left eye, and both eyes, but none of it worked. I verified the problem was not with the weapon and used very close targets (3-7 feet), but she was still shooting consistently off. The problem did not appear to be in her grip as far as I can tell. I had her squeeze off the rounds herself (I didn't pull the trigger for her) and it just got worse from her flinch. I then had her squeeze the trigger while I held it aligned and it was accurate as ever.

To make a long story short, I never did solve the problem, We worked through about 100 rounds of .40, and while she became adept at loading, manipulating, clearing, etc of the weapon, I never got any accuracy. She did appear to have an awesome time(that never-ending grin that first time shooters get when they realize the gun won't bite them), but I'm not satisfied with my teaching. The only think I can think to do is find a laser sight so I can determine what she's doing with the sights, or perhaps use a firearm with a less canted grip (XD perhaps?). I don't want to take her back out there until I have some sort of plan, so I don't ingrain any more bad habits into her. What do the experts here think?

[hheremtp]

I think you are starting off with too much of a gun. If I were you I would use a 22lr first, that way they will not be afraid of the recoil. After that I would get progressively bigger in the caliber size. Try that, I will bet it works out better for you.

[ElGato]

I would have started her with a 22, the 40 would have been a no no.
Dominant eye has no effect when shooting a hand gun.
I prefer the mod.Weaver stance too, but most of the Ladies I teach don't, the isosceles is usually more comfortable for them.
Start new shooters out sitting an the bench so they don't have to worry about stance untill after they have learned to shoot a group.
Easy to correct grip and trigger control when at the bench.
This is just to get started there's ton's more about correcting problem's before they become bad habit's.

[WildBill]

Dominant eye has no effect when shooting a hand gun.

Tom - I think I know what you mean by this, but can you elaborate a little?

[ElGato]

Try it you can use either eye or either hand just by tilting your head, we all do this when we shoot with our weak hand.
If you work at it you can shoot with your weak eye just for fun and still leave both eye's open.

[WildBill]

Try it you can use either eye or either hand just by tilting your head, we all do this when we shoot with our weak hand.

That's what I thought you meant. Thanks.

[Crossfire]

Ladies don't do well with Weaver stance, at least not as a beginner. Body mechanics are just too difficult to overcome. Bench rest for beginners is the best possible place to start.

Jumping right into a 40 caliber is also a bit too intimidating for a newbie, especially a female. A 22 is the first real caliber for beginners. Airsoft is even better. If she has small hands, she won't be able to get on target if she cannot reach the trigger with her hands in the proper position on the grip. Browning Buckmark, Ruger Mark II - those are the guns of choice for this situation.

So, now you have a new shooter with both a flinch and a confidence problem. If she will let you, then start over. Get an interpretor if you need to, but actions speak louder. Good luck.

[The Annoyed Man]

I agree that you used too much gun for a first time shooter.

My son and I have done this a number of times — take someone who has never handled, let alone fired, a handgun to a range and teach that person to shoot — and we have never failed to produce a decent shooter.

The "secret" is that we always start them off with a .22; never anything else, no matter how macho the person thinks they are. Then we move them up to a soft load in a .38. Then a 9mm. Then a .40. Then a .45. And finally, they shoot the .44 magnum. You ought to see their grins the first time they touch off a magnum load! But by then, they've got the mechanics down, and they have been introduced to recoil in graduated increments, so there is no anticipatory fear. And in the meantime, you've trained the flinch out of them. I've never had a bad result this way. Ever.

Last comment: the .40 S&W cartridge is not as easy to shoot well, even for experienced shooters, as some others. It is a snappy round, pushing a heavier bullet, so there is a lot of energy being dissipated through the slide motion and the recoil impulse. The .45 ACP cartridge is actually easier to shoot for many shooters, as it is more of a "push" than a "snap." I've been shooting .45 for many years, and I found my first (and last) .40 cal pistol to be a challenge to shoot well (a USP Compact, which I sold recently). I would never recommend it as a good caliber for a first time shooter to use, if I was not going to use a .22.

Edited to add: I just read Crossfire's comment above. I learned what I've written above from watching her husband, Marty, teach my own wife to shoot. The first time I took my wife to the range, I did like you did, and nearly ruined her as a shooter. Marty was able to reverse the damage, and make the experience enjoyable for her — to the point where, the day after my wife did her CHL class with Crossfire, she went out and bought her own Glock 19 (no it isn't pink; she thinks pink guns are silly), which she shoots quite well.

[WildBill]

First of all, I am not an instructor, but I am going to post any way. I agree with both ElGato and Crossfire about learning with a .22LR. I believe that shooting with a low recoil, low noise handgun allows the new shooter to concentrate and learn the basics of sight alignment, grip and trigger control before moving up to a larger caliber weapon.

Most of the new shooters that I have seen that start with a larger caliber handgun take much longer to improve than those taught with a .22LR. Because of the cost of center fire ammunition it also costs significantly more in time and money to practice and improve.

Just recently, a friend bought a S&W 9 mm as his first handgun. He spent the first 500 rounds just trying to figure out whether it was "him or the gun" that caused him to shoot large groups at 4 o'clock. He did this shooting standing, with a two-handed grip. I believe that with a .22LR shot from the bench he would have answered his question with less than 50 rounds.

His now convinced that he needs to buy a .22LR pistol.

[ElGato]

TraCoun on this forum teaches the NRA Instructor's course's.

[Crossfire]

TraCoun on this forum teaches the NRA Instructor's course's.

That just sums it up right there!

[kragluver]

Agree with previous posters - start with a .22 (good job starting with a blue gun BTW - I need to get one). I have used plastic toy guns in the past with my boys to teach basic safety drills. An air gun or Airsoft is also good.

Start at close range - not more than 7 yards and even 3 yards would be fine. Build up confidence that they can hit. (Don't shoot at steel at close range!!!)

The last couple times I've started brand new shooters on handguns, I've had them NOT use the sights and just point at the target. At close range, they'll find that they can hit pretty reliably. Work on proper grip and trigger squeeze. I don't think its paramount that we try to teach a specific stance (like Weaver) to a brand new shooter. Weaver is more of an advanced topic and it doesn't work well with all people. Just have them get a comfortable, balanced stance with weight slightly forward. Many new shooters - especially people with smaller stature tend to lean back. Make sure the roll their shoulders forward and balance "athletically". After they get used to squeezing the trigger and start to build confidence, then I teach how to use the sights. Don't be too quick to increase the range as they will just get discouraged.

Of course, I can imagine that this was difficult with a person not having English as their first language. In that situation - absolutely avoid slang, sarcasm or humor - they won't get it.

[apostate]

There's been a bunch of good advice, so I'll just add one anecdote.

I usually start new shooters with my Ruger .22 auto. However, I had one who was bothered by the bolt cycling. Switched to a 4" revolver with light .38 wadcutters and they were immediately making good hits and having fun.

[puma guy]

>22, use a rest to start. I would use a large sihouette that either has a contrasting center or staple a paper plate to it. BTW is she focusing on the sights or target?

[Skiprr]

Lot of good advice. I'm gonna agree that, for brand new shooters, I wholeheartedly recommend taking the NRA basic Pistol course, if one can be found in your area. Becoming an NRA instructor yourself is also a great idea. Two different, one-day classes and you're set. As mentioned, TraCoun teaches both student classes as well as instructor courses out of Pearland Shooting Club. He is actually teaching those two required instructor courses back-to-back this coming April 19 and 20, and I believe slots are still open (12 maximum per class). His Website is http://www.argenttraining.com/.

Of course, that will help far less if the new shooter is struggling with English because there's a significant amount of classroom time.

I also believe owning and practicing with a .22 is important, even for experienced shooters (and, of course, a lot of dry-fire). Accumulating mounds of large-cailber brass as your only practice method is likely to lead, unconsciously, to bad habits. That's why a lot of instructors, both for practical and competitive shooting, will recommend about a three-to-one ratio of dry-fire (or Airsoft) to live fire.

I've encountered what sounds like similar situations as yours. The new shooters intellectually understood what sight alignment and a good sight picture were, and they could draw on paper what it should look like. But once on the range simply couldn't do it. You could stand 10 feet behind them and call their shots from there, the point-of-aim was so far off.

What I've had good luck with is something you mentioned in your original post: a laser boresighter. It provides instantaneous feedback about the POA and, most often, will have the new shooter quickly self-correcting. If you have a .22 you use for teaching and chose to mount and sight-in a laser sight, all the better. But a laser boresighter kept in the range bag will do the trick adequately.

I also agree with everyone who said to start seated, in benchrest position. But I also know there are a lot of public ranges that are standing only. So you may just have to work with that as best you can. The key there--again, small caliber--I believe is to give the student as little to think about as possible. Talk minimally about stance and positioning; just get them balanced and comfortable, with no glaring errors like bending backward at the waist.

I'm with you: let's all try regularly to introduce someone to shooting.