Handling or screening for crazy students

[Feed&Guns]

I'm getting my CHL Instructor cert this month (taking class; assuming I'll pass).

We also own a feed store and just added the gun store so we have a lot of people anxious to take our classes once we get certified. However, today, a lady came in and asked about the class. She asked a lot of questions, but I got a very nervous feeling about her mental state. She seemed a little off her rocker. She also had horrible personal hygiene (she stank, bad!) and had a lady with her who paid for her feed. I didn't ask but I thought maybe she had "an assistant" because she wasn't competent to drive or live by herself.

So my question is how do you screen for crazy? I wouldn't feel safe with her doing the shooting practical just with how she was acting simulating shooting the B27 target hanging on our wall with her finger (not sure if it was loaded, but bad muzzle discipline regardless...joking, but she did act in a manner that would make an instructor nervous). We haven't started teaching any other classes yet either, but between the crazies out there and then the Chris Kyle tragedy, how do you other instructors screen or mitigate risk? I think it's against the rules to run a NICS on them prior to class. We're only allowed to use that for the actual attempted purchase of a firearm. Is there a way to prescreen to make sure they should even be allowed to possess a firearm or screen for crazy?

Alternatively, anyone have any horror stories about having crazies in the class?

[VMI77]

Well, if you don't accept someone for that reason it would probably be because the class is full, right?

[Abraham]

...and will continue to be full.

Plus, how many students would be complaining to you (no doubt, on the down low) about her rank B.O?

[rotor]

Next thing you know an attorney will be contacting you. Be very careful with these type of people. This is the problem with being in business nowadays.

[Feed&Guns]

Next thing you know an attorney will be contacting you. Be very careful with these type of people. This is the problem with being in business nowadays.

I've had no problem being in business (various businesses) for 20 years. Fortunately, never needed an attorney yet. But there is always an extra risk dealing with firearms and we are new to the firearms business (and training). What I am afraid of is psycho nutjobs. It's bad enough dealing with novice shooters. It's quite another dealing with crazies. I'm sure that's part of why the NRA says only two students per instructor.

The nature of my initial question was to see if other instructors either have a specific screening method or if they might just do it by feel and refuse to train someone because of their sixth sense telling them something is wrong.

[Taypo]

Next thing you know an attorney will be contacting you. Be very careful with these type of people. This is the problem with being in business nowadays.

I've had no problem being in business (various businesses) for 20 years. Fortunately, never needed an attorney yet. But there is always an extra risk dealing with firearms and we are new to the firearms business (and training). What I am afraid of is psycho nutjobs. It's bad enough dealing with novice shooters. It's quite another dealing with crazies. I'm sure that's part of why the NRA says only two students per instructor.

The nature of my initial question was to see if other instructors either have a specific screening method or if they might just do it by feel and refuse to train someone because of their sixth sense telling them something is wrong.

Pardon the pun here, but obviously she's failing the smell test on this one. I don't blame you for being uncomfortable and I'd probably be entirely too blunt for Texas when I explaines that I wouldn't be able to find a class for her.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have a hard time believing you'd be liable in any way for not training someone based on what you're describing.

[Jim Beaux]

I suggest you cover yourself. Call DPS.

[TexasGal]

In Instructor class a few years back, we were told we don't have the authority to decide who does or does not get to take a class. However...if someone is disrupting a class to the point it is interfering with learning, you can show them the door. If someone is unsafe on the range, you can show them the door. Document those instances with witness statements if possible to protect yourself. If someone sets off your alarm bells, document exactly what that behavior or statements were and get a witnesses to also document it if at all possible. This info goes in your records and you need to call the DPS with your concerns and the information. We were told the DPS would then give that applicant a thorough investigation.

[Feed&Guns]

Thanks for the feedback. My class date is Aug 19-21. I plan on asking the instructors there too, if they don't cover it. But it'll all be relatively hypothetical. It's kind of strange that the government is hypersensitive about people having guns, but then they don't provide us a tool to screen people. If I'm renting a gun to someone or teaching a class, it seems like it would be consistent with their intentions to provide us a system (like NICS for purchases) to make sure someone should be able to possess a gun. It's a crime to give someone a gun who is known to be prohibited. Why wouldn't that make it easy to help know that? They also should have a registry of stolen guns that us FFLs can check as a similar concept.

[WildBill]

In Instructor class a few years back, we were told we don't have the authority to decide who does or does not get to take a class. However...if someone is disrupting a class to the point it is interfering with learning, you can show them the door. If someone is unsafe on the range, you can show them the door. Document those instances with witness statements if possible to protect yourself. If someone sets off your alarm bells, document exactly what that behavior or statements were and get a witnesses to also document it if at all possible. This info goes in your records and you need to call the DPS with your concerns and the information. We were told the DPS would then give that applicant a thorough investigation.

I am not an instructor, however this sounds like good advice.

[Keith B]

Thanks for the feedback. My class date is Aug 19-21. I plan on asking the instructors there too, if they don't cover it. But it'll all be relatively hypothetical. It's kind of strange that the government is hypersensitive about people having guns, but then they don't provide us a tool to screen people. If I'm renting a gun to someone or teaching a class, it seems like it would be consistent with their intentions to provide us a system (like NICS for purchases) to make sure someone should be able to possess a gun. It's a crime to give someone a gun who is known to be prohibited. Why wouldn't that make it easy to help know that? They also should have a registry of stolen guns that us FFLs can check as a similar concept.

If you think the person will be unsafe during your class, and feel you can back that up if they decide to claim you are discriminating, then you can refuse to train them. You just can't discriminate on the protected classes (race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.).

There is a method of screening the student once they have gone through your class and they have a CHL-100. If you have reason to believe the person should not have a CHL, then you can follow the process defined in GC §411.188.

GC §411.188. HANDGUN PROFICIENCY REQUIREMENT
.......
(k) A qualified handgun instructor may submit to the department a written
recommendation for disapproval of the application for a license or modification
of a license, accompanied by an affidavit stating personal knowledge or naming
persons with personal knowledge of facts that lead the instructor to believe that
an applicant does not possess the required handgun proficiency. The department
may use a written recommendation submitted under this subsection as the basis
for denial of a license only if the department determines that the recommendation
is made in good faith and is supported by a preponderance of the evidence. The
department shall make a determination under this subsection not later than the
45th day after the date the department receives the written recommendation.
The 60-day period in which the department must take action under Section
411.177(b) is extended one day for each day a determination is pending under
this subsection.

Basically, you would be stating the person does not meet the requirements for handgun proficiency due to GC 411.172 (a)(7)

GC §411.172. ELIGIBILITY. (a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a
concealed handgun if the person:.........
(7) is not incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper
use and storage of a handgun;

There was a case where a student went through the class, qualified on the range and was given their CHL-100. The student went into the bathroom at the range, changed into a black trench coat and spy hat, and came back out and asked another student to take a picture of him with a couple of pistols held up. The student stated 'I am gonna post this on Facebook and say 'Now the cops won't (mess) with me!', but used another word not appropriate for the forum. The instructors submitted a letter to DPS, along with statements/affidavits from the other students about the incident and the student was denied a CHL based on that incident.

So, bottom line, you can be creative and persuade a person from taking your class, but if something does happen and you do end up training them, if there are grounds for denial of the license, the method does exist to have DPS review the case.

[Keith B]

BTW, I would suggest you download and read the CHL-16 prior to going to your instructor class. It will help you with the stutues and other items you will cover in class if you are already familiar with them. https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetf ... CHL-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[howdy]

Boy I guess I am glad I didn't wear my CHL sash and tiera during my initial CHL class.

[VMI77]

[quote="Keith B" You just can't discriminate on the protected classes (race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.).[/quote]

Seems to me that mental disability is also a protected class and one could be nailed for discrimination on the basis of their personal diagnosis that someone is mentally unfit to take a class.

[Keith B]

[quote="Keith B" You just can't discriminate on the protected classes (race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.).

Seems to me that mental disability is also a protected class and one could be nailed for discrimination on the basis of their personal diagnosis that someone is mentally unfit to take a class.[/quote]

While mental disabilities are covered in discrimination, if it is truly believed the individual cannot follow directions and/or is unable to or not willing to preform the task safely, then you can refuse to allow them to participate.