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I have a good friend, a fellow LTC instructor, who has been teaching many LTC classes for a popular local gun club. He is averaging about 25 students in each of his bi-weekly classes. He told me he started to wear body armor 4 months ago after students have swept him for the third time. As he stated to me, “Would it be ironic that after have served in the Army for 27 years and jumped out of airplane, helicopters and kicked down lots of doors to be shot by one of the LTC students.”

Anyone else is doing this?

The instructor who ran the range for one of my recent commissioned security officer renewal classes not only wore a vest, but bluntly stated that he had been swept so many times by ignorant students that he would shoot any student who pointed a gun at him because he planned to go home again that night.

I wouldn't take his job for a million bucks. The level of firearms incompetence among commissioned security officers is horrifying. That's not universal of course because there are some very competent folks in that group, but they are a small minority. Those who literally don't know how to operate their weapons or have weapons that don't work even if they did know how to operate them are common.

BTW, after getting a look at what goes on there, I also wear a ballistic vest when I attend the renewal qualifications.

Ok, Excalibur, you're scaring the daylights out of me. These are not commissioned police officers, right? Sounds like they need to meet some qualifications before they're allowed to carry weapons. Maybe we need a new law?

Years ago before I moved to rural area, I would go to local range every now and then. There have been countless instances where basic pistol/rifle safety rules were not followed, to a point where on one occasion I shouted at the guy who was fiddling with his rifle while people were headed to post targets down range, to open the bolt and step away from rifle in my then still heavy accent (I was relatively new here then).
I thought exactly the same thing...lived thru bombings, endless shellings, fires, hunger etc. only to come here and get popped in my back by some doofus at the range.
Saw a guy giving his what looked like 10-11 year old daughter 1911 to shoot, nothing wrong with that if done SAFELY!, but she had her finger on the trigger prematurely and dropped the gun after she fired.
More stupidity in the CHL class as well.
So yes, I'd wear level 3a if I was teaching, maybe even if I was just going to range.

These days, I shoot on my own property and only with folks I know well.

The range near my house has a "zero tolerance" on range safety violations. The rules are prominently posted and violators are immediately escorted off the range.

baldeagle wrote:Ok, Excalibur, you're scaring the daylights out of me. These are not commissioned police officers, right? Sounds like they need to meet some qualifications before they're allowed to carry weapons. Maybe we need a new law?

At the risk of being severely flamed, I'll say be careful what you wish for baldeagle. I think the same thing can be said for people not familiar with pistols who take a LTC course. Those kinds of people NEED to take a firearms safety course before they go out shooting, not knowing what they are doing.

Part of me thinks it may be a good idea. On the other hand.......well, you know.

joe817 wrote:

baldeagle wrote:Ok, Excalibur, you're scaring the daylights out of me. These are not commissioned police officers, right? Sounds like they need to meet some qualifications before they're allowed to carry weapons. Maybe we need a new law?

At the risk of being severely flamed, I'll say be careful what you wish for baldeagle. I think the same thing can be said for people not familiar with pistols who take a LTC course. Those kinds of people NEED to take a firearms safety course before they go out shooting, not knowing what they are doing.

Part of me thinks it may be a good idea. On the other hand.......well, you know.

Yeah, I know, but these people are licensed by the state. They should have to qualify for safety and accuracy or not be allowed to carry. I understand the 2nd Amendment arguments, but those don't apply to people who are being licensed by the state to perform a specific function. They should have to meet some standards.

baldeagle wrote:

joe817 wrote:

baldeagle wrote:Ok, Excalibur, you're scaring the daylights out of me. These are not commissioned police officers, right? Sounds like they need to meet some qualifications before they're allowed to carry weapons. Maybe we need a new law?

At the risk of being severely flamed, I'll say be careful what you wish for baldeagle. I think the same thing can be said for people not familiar with pistols who take a LTC course. Those kinds of people NEED to take a firearms safety course before they go out shooting, not knowing what they are doing.

Part of me thinks it may be a good idea. On the other hand.......well, you know.

Yeah, I know, but these people are licensed by the state. They should have to qualify for safety and accuracy or not be allowed to carry. I understand the 2nd Amendment arguments, but those don't apply to people who are being licensed by the state to perform a specific function. They should have to meet some standards.

You'll get no argument out of me on those points. Totally agree.

Excaliber wrote:The instructor who ran the range for one of my recent commissioned security officer renewal classes not only wore a vest, but bluntly stated that he had been swept so many times by ignorant students that he would shoot any student who pointed a gun at him because he planned to go home again that night.

I wouldn't take his job for a million bucks. The level of firearms incompetence among commissioned security officers is horrifying. That's not universal of course because there are some very competent folks in that group, but they are a small minority. Those who literally don't know how to operate their weapons or have weapons that don't work even if they did know how to operate them are common.

BTW, after getting a look at what goes on there, I also wear a ballistic vest when I attend the renewal qualifications.

I watched one guy shoot the target holder at 3 yards, and I saw two other guys miss 17 rounds between them. Now admittedly the guy that hit the target holder didn't qualify, but the other two managed to still get enough points. Since the level 3 security (commissioned security, aka armed security) shoot the same thing CHL does.

baldeagle wrote:Ok, Excalibur, you're scaring the daylights out of me. These are not commissioned police officers, right? Sounds like they need to meet some qualifications before they're allowed to carry weapons. Maybe we need a new law?

Range qualification days usually see a mix of new commissioned officer candidates and commissioned officers meeting their biannual requalification requirement. Those who are requalifying are generally a little better than the new candidates, but not by enough to inspire confidence or for me to go out among them without a ballistic vest.

Some of these folks clearly have not taken any training in even the most basic aspects of gun handling or operation, and very few have LTC's. They're there to get the ticket that gives them another one or two dollars per hour in their paychecks.

One young lady showed up with a gun she had just picked up at a pawn shop. It wouldn't fire more than 2 consecutive shots without malfunctioning. Another guy couldn't get his Glock loaded and chambered by himself. It's common to hear the range officer strongly advising students (who managed to finally get the magazine in with the projectiles facing forward and somehow put enough widely dispersed holes in the target to barely qualify) to get some basic pistol instruction before carrying on duty, but of course whether they do or not is totally up to them.

Ironically, I completed my NRA RSO certification in January, and just today took the DPC-specific RO class for working DPC matches.........and the horror stories told about competitors who ought to know better was enough to make me question my decision. I'm starting to think about body armor too......

With all the reports of dangerous behavior at the range, I'm thinking of wearing a vest any time I leave my house. We've got almost 1million LTC's out there undoubtedly sweeping us with their holstered guns, and millions more MPA carriers. It really would be better if only properly trained LEO's and military on duty were allowed to carry in public.

The Annoyed Man wrote:Ironically, I completed my NRA RSO certification in January, and just today took the DPC-specific RO class for working DPC matches.........and the horror stories told about competitors who ought to know better was enough to make me question my decision. I'm starting to think about body armor too......

I just keep guys your size between me and the shooter. Think of it as "Annoyed Cover"

ScottDLS wrote:With all the reports of dangerous behavior at the range, I'm thinking of wearing a vest any time I leave my house. We've got almost 1million LTC's out there undoubtedly sweeping us with their holstered guns, and millions more MPA carriers. It really would be better if only properly trained LEO's and military on duty were allowed to carry in public.

You might change your mind if you had a chance to see some of the things that happen on police and military ranges.

The only way to keep everyone safe from all of those LTC's and MPA's out there who aren't causing anyone any trouble but theoretically could is to agree with the democrats and allow only criminals to carry guns.......

I once qualified with a .45 on a Navy ship at sea. Closest thing to combat that I saw during my 4 years of service...