Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby OldCannon » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:58 pm

sneedb82 wrote:Cannon: No, the county requires me to have an appt for fingerprints... stupid rule, but they're the only ones I can get to that do not do them electronically. Weird!


Ah, interesting...that makes sense then -- I got mine done at the local PD.
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The Old Cannon Armory is an FFL/SOT in the Austin area. We now carry FROGLUBE products
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby pcgizzmo » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:31 am

What did they ask you about business hours? I've been curious and thought it might be nice to be able to buy and sell used guns but I wouldn't want a store front. Everything would be done over the Internet via other FFL's or if someone local wanted to buy something I would meet them at their house or another location.
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby OldCannon » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:05 am

pcgizzmo wrote:What did they ask you about business hours? I've been curious and thought it might be nice to be able to buy and sell used guns but I wouldn't want a store front. Everything would be done over the Internet via other FFL's or if someone local wanted to buy something I would meet them at their house or another location.


Oh lordy, no. That's verboten. Transfers happen at your place of business or at a gun show (and those have some explicit conditions), and if you try to conduct all your business at a gun show, you're going to have a LOT of explaining to do. You will always have to have hours stated. I've head some folks write it up as Sat and Sun from 1-4pm. You just have to have something explicit. Me, my hours are set from 5-8p, M-F, but it's not like I carry inventory or run a real storefront. I do, however, try to operate like I'm in business during that time. I move from my computer room (where I do my "real" day job) to my front office and focus on my FFL-related work during my business hours. It's quite nice to have an explicit change of scenery, puts me in a good business mindset.
I don't fear guns; I fear voters and politicians that fear guns.
The Old Cannon Armory is an FFL/SOT in the Austin area. We now carry FROGLUBE products
$20 transfers for current CHL holders, fire/police, and veterans, $30 for others, $50 for Class III items
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby pcgizzmo » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:01 am

OldCannon wrote:
pcgizzmo wrote:What did they ask you about business hours? I've been curious and thought it might be nice to be able to buy and sell used guns but I wouldn't want a store front. Everything would be done over the Internet via other FFL's or if someone local wanted to buy something I would meet them at their house or another location.


Oh lordy, no. That's verboten. Transfers happen at your place of business or at a gun show (and those have some explicit conditions), and if you try to conduct all your business at a gun show, you're going to have a LOT of explaining to do. You will always have to have hours stated. I've head some folks write it up as Sat and Sun from 1-4pm. You just have to have something explicit. Me, my hours are set from 5-8p, M-F, but it's not like I carry inventory or run a real storefront. I do, however, try to operate like I'm in business during that time. I move from my computer room (where I do my "real" day job) to my front office and focus on my FFL-related work during my business hours. It's quite nice to have an explicit change of scenery, puts me in a good business mindset.


So, just to clarify since I know next to nothing. IF I had my FFL and someone wanted to purchase a gun from me they would have to drive to my place of business I would not be allowed to drive to them and fill out paperwork and complete the purchase?

What about selling gun's on gunbroker? Don't those get sent to a buyer's local FFL for transfer after they purchase from a dealer?

Thanks for taking time to answer these questions.
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby OldCannon » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:33 am

pcgizzmo wrote:
OldCannon wrote:
pcgizzmo wrote:What did they ask you about business hours? I've been curious and thought it might be nice to be able to buy and sell used guns but I wouldn't want a store front. Everything would be done over the Internet via other FFL's or if someone local wanted to buy something I would meet them at their house or another location.


Oh lordy, no. That's verboten. Transfers happen at your place of business or at a gun show (and those have some explicit conditions), and if you try to conduct all your business at a gun show, you're going to have a LOT of explaining to do. You will always have to have hours stated. I've head some folks write it up as Sat and Sun from 1-4pm. You just have to have something explicit. Me, my hours are set from 5-8p, M-F, but it's not like I carry inventory or run a real storefront. I do, however, try to operate like I'm in business during that time. I move from my computer room (where I do my "real" day job) to my front office and focus on my FFL-related work during my business hours. It's quite nice to have an explicit change of scenery, puts me in a good business mindset.


So, just to clarify since I know next to nothing. IF I had my FFL and someone wanted to purchase a gun from me they would have to drive to my place of business I would not be allowed to drive to them and fill out paperwork and complete the purchase?


Right. Your place of business is listed on your FFL, that is where transactions must take place.


pcgizzmo wrote:What about selling gun's on gunbroker? Don't those get sent to a buyer's local FFL for transfer after they purchase from a dealer?

Thanks for taking time to answer these questions.


From ATF's site:
May a licensed dealer sell a firearm to a non-licensee who is a resident of another State?

Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee's business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.
I don't fear guns; I fear voters and politicians that fear guns.
The Old Cannon Armory is an FFL/SOT in the Austin area. We now carry FROGLUBE products
$20 transfers for current CHL holders, fire/police, and veterans, $30 for others, $50 for Class III items
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby pcgizzmo » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:02 pm

OldCannon wrote:
pcgizzmo wrote:
OldCannon wrote:
pcgizzmo wrote:What did they ask you about business hours? I've been curious and thought it might be nice to be able to buy and sell used guns but I wouldn't want a store front. Everything would be done over the Internet via other FFL's or if someone local wanted to buy something I would meet them at their house or another location.


Oh lordy, no. That's verboten. Transfers happen at your place of business or at a gun show (and those have some explicit conditions), and if you try to conduct all your business at a gun show, you're going to have a LOT of explaining to do. You will always have to have hours stated. I've head some folks write it up as Sat and Sun from 1-4pm. You just have to have something explicit. Me, my hours are set from 5-8p, M-F, but it's not like I carry inventory or run a real storefront. I do, however, try to operate like I'm in business during that time. I move from my computer room (where I do my "real" day job) to my front office and focus on my FFL-related work during my business hours. It's quite nice to have an explicit change of scenery, puts me in a good business mindset.


So, just to clarify since I know next to nothing. IF I had my FFL and someone wanted to purchase a gun from me they would have to drive to my place of business I would not be allowed to drive to them and fill out paperwork and complete the purchase?


Right. Your place of business is listed on your FFL, that is where transactions must take place.


pcgizzmo wrote:What about selling gun's on gunbroker? Don't those get sent to a buyer's local FFL for transfer after they purchase from a dealer?

Thanks for taking time to answer these questions.


From ATF's site:
May a licensed dealer sell a firearm to a non-licensee who is a resident of another State?

Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee's business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.


OK, so going back to the gun shows. If they aren't your place of business how is business done there?
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby mrvmax » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:23 pm

pcgizzmo wrote:
OldCannon wrote:
pcgizzmo wrote:
OldCannon wrote:
pcgizzmo wrote:What did they ask you about business hours? I've been curious and thought it might be nice to be able to buy and sell used guns but I wouldn't want a store front. Everything would be done over the Internet via other FFL's or if someone local wanted to buy something I would meet them at their house or another location.


Oh lordy, no. That's verboten. Transfers happen at your place of business or at a gun show (and those have some explicit conditions), and if you try to conduct all your business at a gun show, you're going to have a LOT of explaining to do. You will always have to have hours stated. I've head some folks write it up as Sat and Sun from 1-4pm. You just have to have something explicit. Me, my hours are set from 5-8p, M-F, but it's not like I carry inventory or run a real storefront. I do, however, try to operate like I'm in business during that time. I move from my computer room (where I do my "real" day job) to my front office and focus on my FFL-related work during my business hours. It's quite nice to have an explicit change of scenery, puts me in a good business mindset.

An FFL can sell at gun shows.

So, just to clarify since I know next to nothing. IF I had my FFL and someone wanted to purchase a gun from me they would have to drive to my place of business I would not be allowed to drive to them and fill out paperwork and complete the purchase?


Right. Your place of business is listed on your FFL, that is where transactions must take place.


pcgizzmo wrote:What about selling gun's on gunbroker? Don't those get sent to a buyer's local FFL for transfer after they purchase from a dealer?

Thanks for taking time to answer these questions.


From ATF's site:
May a licensed dealer sell a firearm to a non-licensee who is a resident of another State?

Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee's business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.


OK, so going back to the gun shows. If they aren't your place of business how is business done there?
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby OldCannon » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:50 pm

pcgizzmo wrote:OK, so going back to the gun shows. If they aren't your place of business how is business done there?


It's an exception to the rule, and guidelines are pretty clear:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearm ... %2023A.pdf

There are other times when you can sell away from your premises as well, but not in the scenario you have mentioned (taking a gun to somebody's home and transferring it there).

Here's the deep details in 5300-4:
§ 478.50 Locations covered by license.
The license covers the class of business or the activity specified in the license at the address specified therein. A separate license must be obtained for each location at which a firearms or ammunition business or activity requiring a license under this part is conducted except:
(a) No license is required to cover a separate warehouse used by the licensee solely for storage of firearms or ammunition if the records required by this part are maintained at the licensed premises served by such warehouse;
(b) A licensed collector may acquire curios and relics at any location, and dispose of curios or relics to any licensee or to other persons who are residents of the State where the collector's license is held and the disposition is made;
(c) A licensee may conduct business at a gun show pursuant to the provisions of § 478.100; or
(d) A licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer may engage in the business of dealing in curio or relic firearms with another licensee at any location pursuant to the provisions of § 478.100.

and
§ 478.100 Conduct of business away from licensed premises.
(a) (1) A licensee may conduct business temporarily at a gun show or event as defined in paragraph (b) if the gun show or event is located in the same State specified on the license: Provided, that such business shall not be conducted from any motorized or towed vehicle. The premises of the gun show or event at which the licensee conducts business shall be considered part of the licensed premises. Accordingly, no separate fee or license is required for the gun show or event locations. However, licensees shall comply with the provisions of § 478.91 relating to posting of licenses (or a copy thereof) while conducting business at the gun show or event. (2) A licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer may engage in the business of dealing in curio or relic firearms with another licensee at any location.
(b) A gun show or an event is a function sponsored by any national, State, or local organization, devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms, or an organization or association that sponsors functions devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community.
(c) Licensees conducting business at locations other than the premises specified on their license under the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section shall maintain firearms records in the form and manner prescribed by subpart H of this part. In addition, records of firearms transactions conducted at such locations shall include the location of the sale or other disposition, be entered in the acquisition and disposition records of the licensee, and retained on the premises specified on the license.
I don't fear guns; I fear voters and politicians that fear guns.
The Old Cannon Armory is an FFL/SOT in the Austin area. We now carry FROGLUBE products
$20 transfers for current CHL holders, fire/police, and veterans, $30 for others, $50 for Class III items
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby sneedb82 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:50 pm

OldCannon wrote:
sneedb82 wrote:Cannon: No, the county requires me to have an appt for fingerprints... stupid rule, but they're the only ones I can get to that do not do them electronically. Weird!


Ah, interesting...that makes sense then -- I got mine done at the local PD.


unfortunately we only have a SO here... no local pd.
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby OldCannon » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:30 pm

sneedb82 wrote:
OldCannon wrote:
sneedb82 wrote:Cannon: No, the county requires me to have an appt for fingerprints... stupid rule, but they're the only ones I can get to that do not do them electronically. Weird!


Ah, interesting...that makes sense then -- I got mine done at the local PD.


unfortunately we only have a SO here... no local pd.


In Travis Co at least, the Sheriff is FAR easier to work with than the local PDs.
I don't fear guns; I fear voters and politicians that fear guns.
The Old Cannon Armory is an FFL/SOT in the Austin area. We now carry FROGLUBE products
$20 transfers for current CHL holders, fire/police, and veterans, $30 for others, $50 for Class III items
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby jsenner » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:01 pm

Hi all, I know I'm late to this thread - sorry - but got a question for you...

OldCannon noted that he was asked about a security system - is this a necessity? I've got a dedicated room in my house for the business, and have a gun safe as well as a pile of gun locks. I live in a pretty open (low density residential) area and there's someone at the house almost 24x7. an alarm out here would need to be something monitored like ADT or something as a regular horn would never be heard by anyone.

is an alarm system going to be a deal breaker? I could quickly put up a video system that could email me alerts and record and such if it'll swing the deal...

thoughts?
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby OldCannon » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:55 am

jsenner wrote:is an alarm system going to be a deal breaker? I could quickly put up a video system that could email me alerts and record and such if it'll swing the deal...thoughts?


I never asked if it was a deal-breaker, but the ATF IOI _specifically_ asked if my alarm system was monitored by an independent agency. My opinion is that if the IOI asks, it's a gating question.

I don't consider it a big deal though. An extra $20/mo of business overhead.
I don't fear guns; I fear voters and politicians that fear guns.
The Old Cannon Armory is an FFL/SOT in the Austin area. We now carry FROGLUBE products
$20 transfers for current CHL holders, fire/police, and veterans, $30 for others, $50 for Class III items
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby sneedb82 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:02 pm

After roughly 3-1/2 months, FFL07 has been received, and we are open for business. Thanks all for your help and pointers.
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby ryanr1299 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:47 pm

jsenner wrote:Hi all, I know I'm late to this thread - sorry - but got a question for you...

OldCannon noted that he was asked about a security system - is this a necessity? I've got a dedicated room in my house for the business, and have a gun safe as well as a pile of gun locks. I live in a pretty open (low density residential) area and there's someone at the house almost 24x7. an alarm out here would need to be something monitored like ADT or something as a regular horn would never be heard by anyone.

is an alarm system going to be a deal breaker? I could quickly put up a video system that could email me alerts and record and such if it'll swing the deal...

thoughts?


An alarm is not necessary. The ATF inspector asked me about security, and specifically about a security system. At the time I didn't have one, nor plans to get one, and this is what I told her. It was not a problem.
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Re: Question for FFL holders: Initial ATF interview

Postby lonestar15 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:48 pm

Luck has always been elusive to me, so perhaps I'm overdue :) One thing that surprised me is how fast I've been able to get signed up as a reseller for RSR, Davidsons, Sports South, Brownells, etc. Turnaround on all of them has been less than 24 hours. On Tuesday, I was nobody. Today, I now have an "inventory" of thousands of guns, parts, and reloading equipment (Now to get it all showing up on my website)


Old Cannon,
Were you able to become a dealer with those distibutors with a home based FFL? I've looked at some of their websites and some are asking for a yellow page ads and storefront photos.. any issues?

BTW, I didn't post anything but I used all the information from this thread to help myself out getting my FFL and I really appreciate everyone taking the time to post about their experiences. Much appreciated!
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