Black Powder Question

[Dragonfighter]

Here's the scenario, my daughters are in a production of "Yankee Doodle Dandies" in Arlington starting the first week in February. They needed a cannon and as luck would have it I had a .78 scale model of a Napoleonic cannon and when the director found out it could be fired, she wanted to know if I could rig blank charges (not too loud). I can, I'll be using about 25gr (I'll experiment to reach the correct charge) of FF in a flash paper charge. The problem and question is this, once I have arrived at the charge I'll have to teach their tech director how to charge and set it off as I can't be there every show, soooo...I would like to use the non-corrosive "Black Powder" so I don't have to worry about pitting or fouling until I get my hands on it again.

That's a lot of information to ask a simple question, anyone know where in the D/FW area I can lay hands on the non-corrosive stuff? I have plenty of the real McCoy but again, I won't be there to Hoppes out the bore every night. I could teach the tech girl how to do it, but all it would take is one or two nights of being forgotten and it's fouled.

Thanks

[Mike1951]

Just reading your post made me uneasy. Can you be certain that some well intended ignoramus won't decide that your effect isn't impressive enough and decide to combine several of the charges. The only way I might engage in something like this would be if I had total control, which you won't have.

I strongly suggest you google "black powder substitute" and do the research yourself. I did this awhile back and learned that some of the substitutes, like Pyrodex, may be more hygroscopic than actual black powder.

Also, I don't know if you can control the volume, but have you considered using carbide?

[Dragonfighter]

Just reading your post made me uneasy. Can you be certain that some well intended ignoramus won't decide that your effect isn't impressive enough and decide to combine several of the charges. The only way I might engage in something like this would be if I had total control, which you won't have.

I strongly suggest you google "black powder substitute" and do the research yourself. I did this awhile back and learned that some of the substitutes, like Pyrodex, may be more hygroscopic than actual black powder.

Also, I don't know if you can control the volume, but have you considered using carbide?

I hear ya.

The tech person is a professional theatrical technical director, so betwixt her and my wife (who will be there every night) I'm pretty sure about the charging and control. It is incumbent on me to arrive at an appropriate charge. It seemed when I was charging muskets for a play once, we used 45gr but that was outside.

I might just get there tomorrow night and find the application unsuitable, then I'll kill the effect option all together. I'm not a fan of running carbide through my firearms though.

It wasn't the qualities of Pyrodex that was holding me up, it was that I'm too ignorant to enter an effective search string because when I search for local black powder suppliers, I get either a stack of mail order houses or informational sites. I have a library of formulation and behavioral texts on black and smokeless powder so Google is just frustrating.

[Rex B]

I think Cabelas has several varieties of BO substitutes

[SC1903A3]

You can use Pyrodex RS. Cabelas or Bass Pro.

[PeteCamp]

With all due respect, I only have two words for you: Lawyer and Liability. You are responsible for anything that happens. I would advise them to seek a licensed and bonded pyrotechnician.

[Dragonfighter]

With all due respect, I only have two words for you: Lawyer and Liability. You are responsible for anything that happens. I would advise them to seek a licensed and bonded pyrotechnician.

Well we're in business. This is technically not pyrotechnics and is no different than blanks in a prop gun. Now I've shot black powder all my life and I still managed to learn something. And once I trained the techie on cleaning and was satisfied that she knew how to do it, I decided to save the money and went with good ole 2FF BP I already had. Speaking of liability, the director had originally pictured the blocking so that the cannon was facing up the center aisle

Any way, for those interested in the technical aspects, I am using 10 grains in a 2x4 flash paper fold over. It makes a satisfying but benign pop, has a 3' flash and a satisfying puff of blue smoke. The experimentation was where I learned something, I started with the ten grains and was pretty satisfied. But "we" decided to try a double charge (20 grains). The interesting thing is that doubling the charge quadruples the effect. Flash went about 12', pop was more pronounced but still benign and an ember traveled about 16' downrange. Ten will do.

The tech girl keeps positive control, locked up until the scene and secures it immediately after wards. She is also used to muzzle loaders and was surprisingly competent. It's a great show.

Thanks for all the help and counsel.

[jimlongley]

With all due respect, I only have two words for you: Lawyer and Liability. You are responsible for anything that happens. I would advise them to seek a licensed and bonded pyrotechnician.

Well we're in business. This is technically not pyrotechnics and is no different than blanks in a prop gun. Now I've shot black powder all my life and I still managed to learn something. And once I trained the techie on cleaning and was satisfied that she knew how to do it, I decided to save the money and went with good ole 2FF BP I already had. Speaking of liability, the director had originally pictured the blocking so that the cannon was facing up the center aisle

Any way, for those interested in the technical aspects, I am using 10 grains in a 2x4 flash paper fold over. It makes a satisfying but benign pop, has a 3' flash and a satisfying puff of blue smoke. The experimentation was where I learned something, I started with the ten grains and was pretty satisfied. But "we" decided to try a double charge (20 grains). The interesting thing is that doubling the charge quadruples the effect. Flash went about 12', pop was more pronounced but still benign and an ember traveled about 16' downrange. Ten will do.

The tech girl keeps positive control, locked up until the scene and secures it immediately after wards. She is also used to muzzle loaders and was surprisingly competent. It's a great show.

Thanks for all the help and counsel.

I was going to point out early on, but didn't have anything else to contribute so didn't, that any unburned powder will be ejected, probably as far as the ember went, and careful cleanup will forestall future problems.

When working up loads with various projectiles I used to use a cheap white sheet laid out in front of my firing position to judge if I was using too much powder. Once I had a load worked up that I felt was as accurate as I was going to get, I would lay out the sheet and fire a shot over it. Too much unburned powder meant I was wasting powder in two ways - all of the powder was not being , and some that was being used was just being used to push the unused stuff out of the barrel.

[Dragonfighter]

I was going to point out early on, but didn't have anything else to contribute so didn't, that any unburned powder will be ejected, probably as far as the ember went, and careful cleanup will forestall future problems.

When working up loads with various projectiles I used to use a cheap white sheet laid out in front of my firing position to judge if I was using too much powder. Once I had a load worked up that I felt was as accurate as I was going to get, I would lay out the sheet and fire a shot over it. Too much unburned powder meant I was wasting powder in two ways - all of the powder was not being , and some that was being used was just being used to push the unused stuff out of the barrel.

LOL. Yeah, well I was using news print. That double charge cleared everything except the front row

It hadn't occurred to me until we had popped a couple of loads that I used to "sweep" and "kiss" (carb)the barrel between rounds when shooting. Of course now that the charge has been established, it gets loaded once, cleaned and stored until next time.

It has occurred to me just how long it's been since I shot any of my BP weapons...I miss it and I felt a little bit like the kid who helped his dad build the cannon.

BTW: The show is "Yankee Doodle Dandies" at Creative Arts Theater and School in Arlington, Texas. If any of ya'll are in the area it might make for a fun evening. It runs this weekend, a few days next week and next weekend. We are also conducting a flag burning ceremony after the final show Saturday the 6th of February. Got to their website for details and tickets.

[Dragonfighter]

Saw the dress rehearsal tonight, cannon looks good...hee, hee.