Let's talk about knives

Gun, shooting and equipment discussions unrelated to CHL issues

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Skiprr
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by Skiprr »

Thanks. And this goes back to equin's question that I am very late replying to:
This is interesting info. For a newbie with no blade experience, what kind of blade is best for SD? A fixed blade? Also, how would it be easier or faster to draw a blade for SD in a close-encounter (less than 21 ft) than it would be a handgun? Or I'm guessing a self-defense class and practice would help with that? Are there any SD classes that focus on using a knife? Most of the ones I see advertised are handgun SD classes, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?
Like karder's, my experience has been lengthy, not so much with recent classes or seminars.

First, I want to address this: “Also, how would it be easier or faster to draw a blade for SD in a close-encounter (less than 21 ft) than it would be a handgun?”

I want to repeat the Clint Smith quotation: “The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down.” Add to that: “Two is one. One is none.”

Your firearm is always your primary weapon. IMHO, for defensive purposes, you should never carry a rifle or shotgun without also having a handgun on your side; and you should never carry a handgun without having a defensive knife at hand.

The stats I mentioned earlier were from NYPD SOP9, a study that included over 6,000 individual officer-involved shootings. In cases where distances could be adequately determined, officer hit-percentages at distances less than 15 yards were:
  • Contact to 3 feet: 38%
  • 3 yards to 7 yards: 11.5%
  • 7 yards to 15 yards: 9.4%
Fully 65% of the officers who felt there was impending danger prior to the actual encounter had their handguns drawn and ready.

The short answer is: deploy your handgun if you can do so...with assurance and accuracy.

You cannot necessarily deploy your blade faster than your handgun...nor should you. It depends on the circumstances.

In most cases your firearm will be on your strong-side hip or slightly behind it. I’m also okay with appendix carry. Less so with shoulder holsters, and absolutely hate small-of-the-back carry. Here’s why:

We shoot at the range, even IDPA. But our practice seldom includes bad guys charging us from five feet away.

I’ve taught folks who said they would never let a possible assailant get that close to them. I challenge them to go through a normal day in an urban environment and count the number of people who come within five feet of them. They always lose count, but it opens their eyes.

Just like we have to trust other drivers to (basically) stay in their lanes, we have to trust most people we encounter to be harmless. If we really stayed in Cooper’s Code Yellow, we’d have our hands on the grips of our guns all the time. If you’re walking across a parking lot and see a guy with his pants down to half-staff, you won’t do a “tactical” roll and come up behind a Ford F-250 simply to avoid him coming within a few feet of you.

Again, this is not about in-the-home, or about rural property.

Outside the home in a major metropolitan area, threats are unlikely to present themselves at distance. A bad guy ain’t gonna stop and announce at seven yards away that he’s gonna rob you.

He—and probably a partner—will close on you, being very affable and simply asking for the time, or for directions, or for a couple of bucks for gas.

Parking lots are the number one locations for violent crime.

The whole point of the blade discussion—and I think Pecos can relate—is that if an event becomes a physical altercation, job one is to protect your gun.

If a guy bum-rushes you and pins you back against the hood of a Camry, odds are you can’t get to your handgun. If you could, it would be a weak draw and might be easily taken away.

Knives, especially folders, are usually carried clipped in a front pocket. I’d suggest that be high in the offhand pocket.

Why? Because if you carry your gun strong-side hip or appendix, you can protect it by clamping your arm over it and using the blade in your off-hand to disable or fend off your attacker long enough—far enough—to deploy your firearm.

That’s the purpose of a blade: to fight back to your handgun.
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by CoffeeNut »

I carry a Kershaw Clash everyday which has served me very well and like all Kershaw's it has a razor sharp edge. It's big enough for SD work if necessary but for everyday tasks it is wonderful. If it were legal I wouldn't mind carrying my Ka-Bar every once in a while but alas it is too big. :banghead:
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by AdioSS »

Ka-Bar & TDI introduced their line of knives that are specifically designed for firearm retention. I tried it & just couldn't get comfortable with it. I just prefer a more standard fixed blade @ 8-9 o'clock or hung from my belt & tucked into the front of my back pocket.
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by Abraham »

Skiprr,

Great information.

Especially the tip on violent crimes and parking lots. While I generally keep my head on a swivel in parking lots, I'll be even more vigilant.

Would you elaborate on:
"Knives, especially folders, are usually carried clipped in a front pocket. I’d suggest that be high in the offhand pocket."

I haven't a clue where the offhand pocket is located? I'm probably the only who doesn't know...

Thanks!
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by gthaustex »

Abraham wrote:offhand pocket
The pocket opposite where you are carrying your firearm...right hand draw, your knife would be clipped to the inside of your left front pocket most likely.
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by SATX-Scrub »

I carry a SOG. Just because I liked it and it fits my hand nicely. I'd like to try an auto though, when I get the chance.
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by Excaliber »

SATX-Scrub wrote:I carry a SOG. Just because I liked it and it fits my hand nicely. I'd like to try an auto though, when I get the chance.
I consider the auto knives a terrific solution to a nonexistent problem.

They're expensive and can cause legal issues in many places outside of our great state.

I find my half serrated spear point bladed CRKT M16Z with the blade flipper and thumb stud to be just as fast without the expense and legal complications as long as I keep it clean and properly lubed with a good dry lubricant, which of course I do.
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by AdioSS »

Excaliber wrote: ...as long as I keep it clean and properly lubed with a good dry lubricant, which of course I do.
What do you use?
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by Excaliber »

AdioSS wrote:
Excaliber wrote: ...as long as I keep it clean and properly lubed with a good dry lubricant, which of course I do.
What do you use?
Tuf-Glide.

Eezox or another similar lubricant would work just as well.
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"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by glbedd53 »

Spyderco Embassy. Best thing I've had so far. Not cheap though.
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AdioSS
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by AdioSS »

I've been re-playing through one of my Assassin's Creed games & the thought popped into my head that since switchblades will be legal, then wouldn't the "Hidden blade" from the games be legal as well?
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by Tic Tac »

george wrote:Yes, fixed blades are more robust, and yes, assisted opening is just as fast, but

automatic knives have a cool factor nothing else has. And an out the front Benchmade Infidel has the most cool factor of all.
That is a great point. In many parts of life, there are things that are cool and there are things that are practical. Usually not a lot of overlap between the two.
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by 68Charger »

AdioSS wrote:I've been re-playing through one of my Assassin's Creed games & the thought popped into my head that since switchblades will be legal, then wouldn't the "Hidden blade" from the games be legal as well?

I'm not sure if you're being serious or... ?

As so long as the knife is under 5.5"..
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AdioSS
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Re: Let's talk about knives

Post by AdioSS »

68Charger wrote:
AdioSS wrote:I've been re-playing through one of my Assassin's Creed games & the thought popped into my head that since switchblades will be legal, then wouldn't the "Hidden blade" from the games be legal as well?

I'm not sure if you're being serious or... ?

As so long as the knife is under 5.5"..
If Leor ado Da Vinci can build one, then why can't I? Lol
And it would need a single sided blade to stay legal :)
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