Gun fires without being touched

[Odin]

It's possible, although I never would have dreamed up the scenario in which it happened. As close to an "immaculate discharge" as possible.

A Colt 1911 with (firing pin block) was cocked and locked, thumb safety engaged, in a holster (but not being worn at the time) with the trigger covered. The weapon had not been modified and all safetys were functional and intact. Nothing physically touched the weapon to cause it to fire. After firing, the safety was still engaged, the weapon was still holstered, and the empty case was in the chamber.

I don't know if this has been discussed here before, but it makes for an interesting read.

http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092

[atxgun]

Amazing. I guess another step in a saftey mechanism would to be constructing the firing pin block out of a non magnetic material. That might seem unnecessary given this is a very unlikely environment anyone would find themselves in this opens up the idea of using magnetic fields as a weapon to make your enemies guns misfire or the reverse of what happened the firing pin gets stuck in place rendering the weapon useless.

[AFJailor]

Hmmm, how would the weapon cycle with the thumb safety engaged?


Well, i guess if the round was in the chamber, it MIGHT be able to fire, but what happened when the weapon tried to cycle i wonder?

[txinvestigator]

It's possible, although I never would have dreamed up the scenario in which it happened. As close to an "immaculate discharge" as possible.

A Colt 1911 with (firing pin block) was cocked and locked, thumb safety engaged, in a holster (but not being worn at the time) with the trigger covered. The weapon had not been modified and all safetys were functional and intact. Nothing physically touched the weapon to cause it to fire. After firing, the safety was still engaged, the weapon was still holstered, and the empty case was in the chamber.

I don't know if this has been discussed here before, but it makes for an interesting read.

http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092

The article alledges an MRI machine pulled the gun inside of it.

From your link

the gun was pulled from his hand as he attempted to place the gun on top of a cabinet 3 ft (0.9 m) away from the magnet bore. The gun was immediately pulled into the bore, where it struck the left side and spontaneously discharged a round into the wall of the room at the rear of the magnet

So it was not a phantom magical discharge with no outside force acting on the weapon, was it?

[KBCraig]

It must be the Christmas season. We discussed this same article in December 2006.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =23&t=4778

[Odin]

It's possible, although I never would have dreamed up the scenario in which it happened. As close to an "immaculate discharge" as possible.

A Colt 1911 with (firing pin block) was cocked and locked, thumb safety engaged, in a holster (but not being worn at the time) with the trigger covered. The weapon had not been modified and all safetys were functional and intact. Nothing physically touched the weapon to cause it to fire. After firing, the safety was still engaged, the weapon was still holstered, and the empty case was in the chamber.

I don't know if this has been discussed here before, but it makes for an interesting read.

http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092

The article alledges an MRI machine pulled the gun inside of it.

From your link

the gun was pulled from his hand as he attempted to place the gun on top of a cabinet 3 ft (0.9 m) away from the magnet bore. The gun was immediately pulled into the bore, where it struck the left side and spontaneously discharged a round into the wall of the room at the rear of the magnet

So it was not a phantom magical discharge with no outside force acting on the weapon, was it?

No, an outside force was involved, but the force that caused the firing may have been strictly magnetic, which isn't the same as physical contact with the weapon. Or possibly the force was contact with the magnet.

It is debatable as to whether the firing pin came into contact with the primer due to (a) inertia caused by the impact of the weapon to the side of the magnet, or (b) the firing pin moving caused by the magnetic force pulling the firing pin forward into the primer. Just as the magnet pulled the weapjn from the man's hand it could have pulled the firing pin into the primer with sufficient force to cause discharge.

Either case is speculation because it's not possible to know for certain which caused the firing to occur.

[DoubleJ]

seems like somebody knew a thing or two about magnets
MRI Safety Tip Thread

[WarHawk-AVG]

Hmmm, how would the weapon cycle with the thumb safety engaged?


Well, i guess if the round was in the chamber, it MIGHT be able to fire, but what happened when the weapon tried to cycle i wonder?

It wouldn't, the thumb safety locks the slide..it WONT move

Believe it or not, you can wrap your hand around any automatic and get a firm grip...the firing of the round will not cycle the slide and it will NOT slide back and slice your hand up, not enough force to actuate the slide

Have you ever seen how fast a metal object is pulled towards an electromagnet

Heck some of those rare earth magnets have enough force to dang near crush your fingers if you got them between two of them when they start pulling at each other..I would bet the pistol hit with the force similar to being dropped from a very far height

P.S. Imagine what the person would have look like if the pistol got pulled to the MRI machine and the persons body was stuck between the metal object and the magnetic field..it wouldn't have been pretty!

[hoss4570]

Sorry but I ain't buying it. NO WAY can a 1911 fire without you flipping the safty off, depressing the grip safty AND pulling the trigger. Go sell that hog to somebody else.....................

[dukalmighty]

Sorry but I ain't buying it. NO WAY can a 1911 fire without you flipping the safty off, depressing the grip safty AND pulling the trigger. Go sell that hog to somebody else.....................

Tell that to the guy that had his colt 1911 45 discharge in his cubicle at work ,then tell me ya gota have the safety disengaged grip safety depressed and "booger hook pulling bang switch"

[KBCraig]

Sorry but I ain't buying it. NO WAY can a 1911 fire without you flipping the safty off, depressing the grip safty AND pulling the trigger. Go sell that hog to somebody else.....................

Really don't have much of an idea of the forces involved in an MRI, do you?

[frankie_the_yankee]

Sorry but I ain't buying it. NO WAY can a 1911 fire without you flipping the safty off, depressing the grip safty AND pulling the trigger. Go sell that hog to somebody else.....................

Wrong. The paper clearly explained what happened. The explanation makes perfect sense. Note that the magnets used in an MRI machine are thousands of times more powerful than anything in our everyday experience. In fact, they are powerful enough that certain materials not normally thought of as magnetic can be affected in some circumstances.

When reading it I found myself surprised by the author(s)' knowledge of 1911 style guns. Unusual in a medical journal article. I'm guessing the author(s) consulted some experts.

I also found myself surprised at the total lack of misinformation and hysteria I would have expected in such an article. Instead, it was factual and nicely explained how all the evidence fit together as to concluding what happened and why.

Even the actions recommended to prevent future occurrances seemed reasonable.

Very interesting. But nothing to worry about outside of an MRI facility. No other place where any of us are likely to go has magnets anywhere near that powerful. For reference these would be:

Partical accelerators used for high energy physics research.
Experimental hydrogen fusion reactors.

Can't think of anything else. Even the electromagnets used in recycling yards to pick up scrap steel and iron pieces are puny compared to what's in an MRI machine.

[seamusTX]

When reading it I found myself surprised by the author(s)' knowledge of 1911 style guns. Unusual in a medical journal article. I'm guessing the author(s) consulted some experts.

One of the authors is "William Bartell, Rochester Police Department, Rochester, NY 14624." I'm going out on a limb here by guessing he might know more about pistols than MRI machines.

I also found myself surprised at the total lack of misinformation and hysteria I would have expected in such an article.

It is more unusual than a 'man bites dog" story, but some physicians are shooters.

- Jim

[NcongruNt]

Also something to consider would be the fact that the safety is a separate piece of steel in the assembly of a 1911. The huge magnetic forces involved are exponentially greater than the force required to thumb off the safety. It's totally feasible that the magnet pulled the safety into an off position prior to impact, making it possible for the magnet to pull the firing pin forward with sufficient force to detonate the primer once the pistol impacted the chamber. That same magnetic force could have kept the slide from cycling after firing. I didn't see whether the safety was on when the weapon was recovered, but the possibility exists that it could have been re-engaged if it re-situated in the chamber after firing.

[frankie_the_yankee]

One of the photos in the article showed the gun cocked and locked AFTER firing. It also mentioned that the safety was on when the gun was removed from the MRI machine (after the magnet was powered down). I guess that anything's possible, but it's hard to see how the safety could be disengaged, then re-engaged. I think it is more likely that the gun fired with the safety on as described. All that would be required for this to happen is for the firing pin safety to be pulled up by the magnet as the article stated.