ATF thinks Airsoft guns can be converted to Full-Auto

[UpTheIrons]

So the ATF seizes 30 Airsoft guns from a dealer in Tacoma because the mouths of the barrels aren't painted orange. OK, so that's not legal. Got it. But:

Special Agent Kelvin Crenshaw said the toys can be easily retro-fitted into dangerous weapons. "With minimal work it could be converted to a machine gun," Crenshaw said.

Huh? What? Am I missing something?

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/ ... gIQaA.cspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[snorri]

A lot of airsoft guns are already full-auto. Academy sells them. Here's one for less than $50. http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=c ... 01081-9130

[Zoomie]

Airsoft guns look, and can feel like real guns, but internally there no similarity. It would be no harder to build a firearm from scratch than to make an airsoft gun into a firearm. For a little bit of background, I've played airsoft 7-8 years now, and I've taken apart more than a few airsoft guns.

[TDDude]

Since it is my personal goal to always promote "positive leo speach" I'll just say that Special Agent Crenshaw had to have been misquoted.

Other than that, if the orange tip is the law, then that's that. Having the tips painted like the story says they've done in the past seems to be a reasonable solution.

[srothstein]

I think the misquote is to call the rifles they seized airsoft guns. They may not be the same brand. there are some very realistic weight and mechanism similar law enforcement trainers that might be able to be converted. One brand I know of is designed to shoot plastic pellets or paint balls of .43 caliber. I am fairly sure it could be done by placing an AR upper on one of the trainer lowers. Not having tried it and not having one of them handy, I will not say this is truly possible, but it certainly sounds possible from my limited experience with them.

Obviously, without the proof of the ease of conversion, the ATF is blowing in the wind again. These might have been illegal without the muzzle flash painted muzzle, but that law never made sense to me anyway.

[UpTheIrons]

I have seen some posts elsewhere that pointed to this link: http://www.airsplat.com/Items/GR-WE-CQBR-GBB.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not yet knowing the internals of an AR lower well enough, I can't comment on the possibility of "swapping parts" out to make a BB gun fire real ammunition. I suppose it looks like it MAY be possible, but then again, would it go "bang" more than once? Or just BOOM!

It wasn't my intent to disparage the ATF, I just couldn't make the connection at the time between Airsoft and NFA type guns, and the possibility of making one into the other. Please forgive my non-clarity if that's how it came across. "Easily" is the word that really got me confused and thinking.

[MadMonkey]

The only way I could see this happening is if an AR-type Airsoft receiver could actually be modified to accept parts from the real guns. That and the stock would be about the only useful parts from an Airsoft gun, and I doubt the receiver would stand up to more than a couple of rounds.

Since the receiver would probably be the most easily converted, I can see why they would grab them. I still think it would be much easier to use a parts kit and build one from scratch though.

Oh well.

[jmra]

The OPs link said the 30 guns were worth $12k which comes out to $400 each. At my house we don't spend $400 on a toy gun.

[JJVP]

So the ATF seizes 30 Airsoft guns from a dealer in Tacoma because the mouths of the barrels aren't painted orange. OK, so that's not legal. Got it. But:

Special Agent Kelvin Crenshaw said the toys can be easily retro-fitted into dangerous weapons. "With minimal work it could be converted to a machine gun," Crenshaw said.

Huh? What? Am I missing something?

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/ ... gIQaA.cspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$12,000 FOR 30 guns. That's $400/gun cost. Expensive airsoft guns. Highest price I found on a web search was $260.

"The Martins said they've received shipments before from Taiwan that were missing the orange tips and were simply asked by customs agents to drive up to Tacoma and paint the tips orange themselves. They are wondering why it is an issue now. "

There most be something else.

[Zoomie]

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.p ... ts_id=4794

There are some crazy expensive airsoft guns out there

On another not the only training weapons I've seen that could be easily converted to firearms are sim-munition guns, which are real M-16's with a replacement bolt carrier group.

[MadMonkey]

$12,000 FOR 30 guns. That's $400/gun cost. Expensive airsoft guns. Highest price I found on a web search was $260.

$400 is about average for a mid-high end AEG. There are many that are well over $1k. Miniguns are about $3500, if you want to be silly

[TDDude]

And another thing: Any AR rifle can be converted to full-auto with a $20.00 part. M & A http://www.m-aparts.com/ has them in their parts list. Its not that big a deal. It is however a big deal if one gets caught with said part. Heavy jail time will ensue.

My point is that the "converting to machine gun" argument just doesn't wash.

[Fangs]

Um, if they weren't actually Airsoft (or similar plastic pellet firing) guns, then they wouldn't be required to have orange tips, right? Are real BB guns / pellet rifles required to have orange tips these days?

Seems kinda stupid to say, "Yes these guns are flimsy plastic pellet firing toys that require an orange tip, BUT THEY CAN BE MADE INTO MACHINE GUNS!!"

...and it's not illegal to have the toy guns without the orange tips, it's illegal to sell them that way. It doesn't sound like the store owners were selling them before getting the tip painted on, just that they had received them that way from Taiwan and knew how to fix it.

[UpTheIrons]

Here's an "update" to the original story, with some facts about the lowers on the seized guns.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1417-Gun-Righ ... g-toy-guns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Video of a local station's news story is included, with Special Agent Crenshaw explaining that the guns can be converted to full-auto. I'd like to say he was misquoted, but he's there saying it in his own words. Right after he tries to insert the magazine backwards. Maybe he's a desk driver (every agency has them), but shouldn't he know how to operate the EBRs his agency seizes?

Feeling a little punchy today after reading some of the transcript from McDonald v. Chicago.

[txmatt]

based on the examiner link UpTheIrons posted, it looks like the lower of these toy guns could accept an AR upper with little or no modification... BUT they couldn't accept a AR trigger group, semi or full auto ,without major precision machine work. No trigger = not a firearm to me. I could see the ATF getting upset if people were importing "toy" guns with standard AR lowers on them, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Would be very interesting to see the reply to the business owners FOIA request about the basis for the agency's determination.

What's next? Are they going to seize blocks of aluminum because someone with the knowledge and the tools could mill it into a AR lower?