FireClean lubricant fight

[eureka40]

Infrared spectroscopy analysis

[MechAg94]

I would bet most people don't torture test their guns enough to tell the difference between the better lubricants.

You're probably right about the torture testing, but what I do look for is how easily a product will clean off fouling - particularly where it has been burned on pretty good, such as the tail end of an AR bolt for instance. In that regard, Fireclean has worked better for me than Hoppes.

I guess that part is what I was getting confused over. Hoppe's solvent is a cleaner, not a lube so torture testing really doesn't apply in my mind. I agree that the solvent doesn't clean off carbon too well. It doesn't get the carbon staining on revolvers off well either. I have heard there are specialty cleaners that do very well removing carbon.

I know some products act as solvent and lube in one. I just haven't used those much.

[WildBill]

Nothing more for me to say about this subject.

[The Annoyed Man]

I would bet most people don't torture test their guns enough to tell the difference between the better lubricants.

You're probably right about the torture testing, but what I do look for is how easily a product will clean off fouling - particularly where it has been burned on pretty good, such as the tail end of an AR bolt for instance. In that regard, Fireclean has worked better for me than Hoppes.

I guess that part is what I was getting confused over. Hoppe's solvent is a cleaner, not a lube so torture testing really doesn't apply in my mind. I agree that the solvent doesn't clean off carbon too well. It doesn't get the carbon staining on revolvers off well either. I have heard there are specialty cleaners that do very well removing carbon.

I know some products act as solvent and lube in one. I just haven't used those much.

Fireclean is sold as a CLP, and that's how I use it. When I first bought it, I gave my AR15s a thorough cleaning with it. It found and removed stuff that I had not been previously able to remove without a LOT of elbow grease.....just floated it right up off the metal. Then I properly lubed everything with it, and gave the inside of the upper receiver and the charging handle a very thin coat of it (spread on, wiped off), and left it that way. After my next range trip, the crud just wiped right off the gun and parts with a shop rag - no scrubbing necessary - including on the bolt stem aft of the gas seals, where it often cakes on and requires scraping to remove. I've been using it ever since with total confidence. I use it on my handguns and bolt rifles too.

[dlh]

I looked at the MSDS sheet for Fireclean because of interest in its ingredients. Disappointment! "Proprietary blend" or some such.

I am not familiar with the legal requirements, if any, pertaining to the required data in an MSDS sheet but you would think the Fireclean folks would have listed something a little more specific. Red flag for me.

I did notice its patent application stated it was a "combination of vegetable oils."

dlh

[WildBill]

I looked at the MSDS sheet for Fireclean because of interest in its ingredients. Disappointment! "Proprietary blend" or some such.

I am not familiar with the legal requirements, if any, pertaining to the required data in an MSDS sheet but you would think the Fireclean folks would have listed something a little more specific. Red flag for me.

I did notice its patent application stated it was a "combination of vegetable oils."

dlh

The purpose of an MSDS [Material Safety Datasheet] is strictly to provide information about the safe storage, use and handling of the materials, not about exact composition or proprietary ingredients.

[The Annoyed Man]

The official Fireclean response:

FIREClean™ Advanced Gun Oil is a specifically formulated, technically superior weapon reliability solution that resists the harshest firing with enormous heat and carbon overload that seize most weapons. It is a formulation- made specifically for exceptional reliability in firearms and weapons- not a re-labeled or re-packaged product.

FIREClean™ has been proven in combat in Afghanistan by US Special Operations Forces, and is in use by Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force Special Operations. It is also in use by elements of the FBI, DHS, DEA, CBP, Secret Service, Department of State, various intelligence agencies as well as numerous State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies.

FIREClean™ has been successfully tested on and is in use on weapons from handguns and shotguns to fully automatic and suppressed individual weapons. It has also been successfully tested on and is in use on crew served weapons from 5.56mm M249s to 40mm Automatic Grenade Launchers.

In addition to over 3 years of Combat and Service/Duty usage, FIREClean™ has been used on the competition circuit by the best shooters in the world, including the US Army Marksmanship Unit. It has been used to win multiple National Championships in Pistol, 3 Gun, Sniping, and many other competitive shooting disciplines.

- See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015 ... laoilgate/

I don't reckon that those SOCOM users would put up with a crappy product, since they have other choices available to them. I also don't reckon that any of my weapons take the same abuse as theirs do.

Castrol racing oil for super cars and Grand Prix motorcycles is made from the castor bean......in other words, a vegetable oil. I'd submit to anybody that even a spec ops weapon heavily used in combat doesn't get the same kind of high temperature internal abuse and tremendous shearing forces as the engine internals of a formula one race car.....which also costs more by several orders of magnitude than any individual firearm - even a full auto weapon used in wartime.....and the F1 driver's life depends in part on the reliability of his engine, just like the spec ops warrior's life can depend on the reliability of his rifle.

Basically, people are making a mountain out of a molehill over the fact that Fireclean is vegetable oil based. Who cares? I sure don't. I think that Fireclean's competitors are taking advantage of a certain amount of ignorance on the part of the general gun-buying public over the chemical engineering aspects of lubrication. (I'm NOT saying any of you are ignorant, but just stop for a minute and think about my castor bean analogy.) What matters is whether or not it is working well and delivering as claimed and advertised in weapons that see much more use and abuse than any of ours.

That's why I'm not worried about it at all. My biggest complaint is that they don't sell it in larger bottles.

Anyway, I've said all that I wanted to say, so now I'll toddle off to bed.

[dlh]

We all have a "weakness" for our hobbies and passions. Perhaps we spend more on some firearms/supplies than we should.

Another example, slightly off topic, is that "CAT" tool you can buy to clean carbon off the bolt of your AR15 rifle..You seen the price they want for that? Nearly thirty bucks!!... Do some people shell out the money for it? You betcha. No way I am spending that kinda money for that little tool.

The marketplace decides on these matters. I just wish businesses in general would be more truthful and forthcoming about their claims and practices.

dlh

[WildBill]

What matters is whether or not it is working well and delivering as claimed and advertised in weapons that see much more use and abuse than any of ours.

[Abraham]

I'm glad it's a vegetable oil as it's (so I'm told) non-toxic and that's in part, one of the reasons I switched over to it.

I bought the CAT tool (I'm fabulously wealthy) and it does a pretty good job of removing crud that's difficult to remove, especially way up in the BCG.

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm glad it's a vegetable oil as it's (so I'm told) non-toxic and that's in part, one of the reasons I switched over to it.

I bought the CAT tool (I'm fabulously wealthy) and it does a pretty good job of removing crud that's difficult to remove, especially way up in the BCG.

My son gave me a Leatherman MUT (http://www.leatherman.com/mut-29.html#start=12) for Christmas a few years ago, and it has a bronze carbon scraper included in its tool-set. The MUT is a multi-tool created for field use on any AR-platform weapon. I always include it in my range bag, and I've used it pretty much every single time I've taken my rifle apart for cleaning ever since I got it. They are VERY pricey, so lots of people will flinch at the price. But, it was a gift, and it has been a blessing to own......carbon scraper included.

[KD5NRH]

The MUT is a multi-tool created for field use on any AR-platform weapon.

You know, it's rather telling that no other platform has a multi-tool specifically geared toward fixing it.

Unless you count the AK and the widely available "random rock."

[WildBill]

The MUT is a multi-tool created for field use on any AR-platform weapon.

You know, it's rather telling that no other platform has a multi-tool specifically geared toward fixing it.

[The Annoyed Man]

The MUT is a multi-tool created for field use on any AR-platform weapon.

You know, it's rather telling that no other platform has a multi-tool specifically geared toward fixing it.

Well, unlike an AK tool set, it doesn't include a ball-peen hammer and a chisel.